Mystery Machine

[UPFrank]

 I have been looking for a while now and have only seen three other machines very similar to this one, a patcher an an Hengstenberg base. The question is, who made the patcher and does someone have a threading diagram for it? It has markings that make me want to think it is a Bradbury, but the image of the factory on my machine with 4 high walls does not match the Bradbury pictures I have seen.

This machine was my dad's and I have used it in the past, but since he is now gone I don't know how to get it set up to sew.

Thanks

[OLDNSLOW]

No one else has had time to take a lookasee but that machine looks just like ones that are being sold on Eway that are Chinese patcher imports, there are some videos out that show different operations of that machine, so you might want to take a look there to see if there are any similarities.

Good luck

[Uwe]

Well, I have no idea what it is, but I do hope we collectively figure it out, because I happen to have one almost exactly like it. Yours is in nicer condition, it appears. On mine, the picture of the factory on the handwheel is from a different angle, too. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Uwe

[UPFrank]

Thanks for sharing Uwe, maybe we can get this resolved.

[Darren Brosowski]

These patchers were built by a number of companies in Europe, mostly Germany but Bradbury built them in the UK as well as companies in Italy, Switzerland and elsewhere.

The "ABLE290" I sell is a Chinese interpretation of a portable version.

[Constabulary]

I have no such machine but a manual in German language of a Claes patcher which is very close to yours. File is too big to attach here and when I reduce the size the file it is of poor quality so if you are interested send me a PM

[dikman]

Oldnslow, it looks more like it was the "original" that the Chinese patchers are based on. This appears to be a bit more refined.

Very nice looking machine.

[alexitbe]

As Constabulary said, its very close to a Claes.  The arm looks to be the same in shape and form. Check out the very early Claes machines...  Its seems to be somewhere between them and the later CLaes RPX.  However, the take-up lever with its spring system is different to what I have seen. ALthough i have not really researched it..

Cheers

Alex

[mikesc]

You are looking at a Claes..

http://leblogdecallisto.blogspot.fr/2015/11/claes-flentje-mulhouse.html
Sorry page is entirely in French, I can make you an English translation of the text later today, a bit busy at the moment..

Scroll down to the bottom of that French page and you'll see some links , 4 in total ( where it says "cliquer ici" ) to more photos and material..

translation ..done whilst drinking 1st coffee of the day..so not "tidied up" ..but HTH anyway ; )
*********************
A small article of an historical character, for once, about a manufacturer of industrial machines: Claes & Flentje.

This company was founded in 18 August 1869 by Ernst Bernhard Claes and Franz Theodor Flentje. They launced into the production of sewing machines for cobblers, and, from 1875, into knitting machines.The factory celebrated it's 10,000 sewing machine produced in 1876.It continued to diversify and launched into the production of bicycles in 1889, under the name of "Pfeil" ( "fleche" in French, * "arrow" in English ).

In 1900 the factory employed over 1000 workers,.In 1913 the total production statitics ( all years combined )showed ..

*300,000 sewing machines produced
*190,000 knitting machines
*107,000 bicycles

The first world war and the great depression would have important consequences for the company.it ceased production of sewing machines in 1926, and later bicycles in 1928, finally becoming bankrupt in1932.

The company was bought and re-opened it's doors in 1933it now made only sewing machines and knitting machines.It was now named Claes & co Gmbh.

Like all German companies, it participated in the war effort during the second world war.at the end of which, it returned to the production of sewing machines and knitting machines, but now with only 60 employees.Knitting machine production was abandoned in 1961.

The company was nationalised in 1972 in the VEB ( = state owned company of what was then East Germany ) "Spezialnähmaschinenwerk Mülhausen" ( = "Industrail sewing machines" ) 200 workers became employees of the Combinat ( a sort of "worker's co-operative"..*a German speaker will translate that word more accurately ) "Textima". The company continued to produce sewing machines for cobblers until 1991, when the re-privatisation failed.

However, three previous employees would eventually retake the company.The new company began on the 20th December 1994 and was called "CL Machinenbau GmbH". It moved to new premises in 1995 and the "historical buildings" were demolished in 2012.

Some links

Photos taken in the old abandoned building..
http://www.schmitt-photography.de/?p=750
Photos of the demolition of the "historical building"..
http://www.dtoday.de/startseite/bilder/detailansicht_mmid,9761.html
Photos of a cobbler's sewing machine made by Claes & Flentje.
http://needlebar.org/cm/thumbnails.php?album=428
and finally the website of the company CL Maschinenbau GmbH
http://www.cl-maschinenbau.com/unternehmen/history.php?lang=en
**************************

Translated from Calisto's original article in French .

Edited September 12, 2016 by mikesc

[suzelle]

Cool old machine! Love to read the history of these old ones!

[Uwe]

I don't think we have it quite nailed down yet. The body casting of ours has more of an I-Beam cross section, whereas most of the machines we've considered so far have a round or oval main casting cross section. The lower front arm on our machine also goes to the top of the head, not into the center. 

Apparently there's a mind-boggling variety of manufacturers that made these machines. Christoph Schiffmann in Germany has the most extensive collection I've seen so far.

I had no idea there were so many copies of this design by so many manufacturers! It's almost like the hundreds of long-defunct U.S. Auto companies that were all tried their hand at making variations of the same car design and didn't survive past the second decade of last century.

From Schiffmann list:

The Adler 27 has a similar body casting, but the lower front arm is not right:

 

 

The C. Schmidt & Hengstenberg has the correct front lower arm that curves up to the top of the swivel head - very few machine have that design detail. Alas, the body casting has a rounded cross section, not I-beam like.

 

 

Maybe I'll contact Herr Schiffman to see if he can identify the precise model of ours. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Uwe

[mikesc]

Got to agree with you there Uwe, I was basing my assessment of the manufacturer on the pictures on the machine, but, the details on the castings on the stand are definitely like those of the C. Schmidt & Hengstenberg in your lower picture, maybe the machine is a hybrid ?( someone replaced the head with another but kept the stand ? ) ..Just noticed that I left the http:// part on all those links above, whilst not allowing scripts* from LW ( doing so makes the back end end of the forum here auto-link them back to this same page,I must remember not to for anyone interested, here are the links that actually "link out", I posted the above ones and then got busy without checking to see if they worked..
http://leblogdecallisto.blogspot.fr/search/label/Claes

http://www.schmitt-photography.de/?p=750

http://www.dtoday.de/startseite/bilder/detailansicht_mmid,9761.html

http://needlebar.org/cm/thumbnails.php?album=428

http://www.cl-maschinenbau.com/unternehmen/history.php?lang=en

*When you have over 2000 tabs open ( like I do ATM ) allowing scripts slows the machine to a crawl, over 5 GiB of RAM used just for scripts ( not counting what is being used by other programs I have running at the same time ) from various sites in all the tabs. the ones here that seem to et RAM are the pre-ticked "notify me" ones, horrible idea, that ought to be set to "opt in" not "opt out", ie: not pre ticked boxes, anywhere, for anything..on any site, ever.. :(((

It is also waaaay less work for the website server,if one is not "auto-opted in" to "follow" and "notify" and "let others know that I'm following" etc etc..Going through unticking all boxes now..Great site and resource, but that "auto opt in" to so much of that kind of stuff is crazy, and burns CPU cycles and RAM at both server and Browser, ( not to mention all the emails that it generates ) ends..

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by mikesc

[Wizcrafts]

Mike;

You can deactivate all or some notifications through your control panel on LWN. There are separate categories for browser notifications and email notifications. As for the default settings, they are standards set by the software developer. They leave it to sys admins to alter the universal templates affecting all selectable board options. In our case, this is an ongoing slow process.

[mikesc]

Yep ..did all of that just after posting the above Wiz I discovered that ever since my join date ( two years ago ) I was "opted in"  for "immediate notifications" by email, of each and every post, by anyone ( without realising ) to every thread I'd ever posted in, and some I hadn't even posted in..good thing I run my own mail server, otherwise some ISP might be getting on my case about "inbox full" , I must have thousands of emails from here to go and empty / delete..I hear what you say about some software / website designers..if they can "bloat it" with "bells and whistles" they will, and they leave all the "bells and whistles" set to "on as default", without making it obvious ( or "off as default", which is the intelligent way, and the latter way saves the site owner some money on bandwidth and CPU RAM etc ) all those calls to the server and "notification of new post" emails flying out add up, raise server running costs, and can also be expensive for visitors who are not on unlimited data plans...and the poor souls on mobile phones with non "unlimited data plans", data bills go through the roof.

[Wizcrafts]

I hear you Mike. As a part time web developer I have learned to resize and reduce images and compress codes to reduce bloat for people on metered Internet connections. It's not just mobile phone users either. In the USA there are people on satellite ISPs and still some on dial-up modems. When I got into web design I was on dial-up. So, I resized and reduced until my own web pages loaded in a reasonable time. I also write my own scripts and host them on my server. The only external scripting comes from Google ads.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Beautiful machine, and I've seen a lot of em.  

[UPFrank]

Back to the original topic, who can give a definite answer as to what the machines are that Uwe and I have, and can someone tell me how to thread the thing so I can use it?

We all know that there are many companies that have made them and that there are Chinese knockoffs still produced, but there has to be someone that can add some additional insight like what MikeSC added.

I don't plan on selling my machine as it likely has way more sentimental value than monetary, but I am curious what it may be worth?

Thanks again to those helping point us to a make and model for these machines.

[Constabulary]

As I said earlier, I have a CLAES manual in German language. Send me a PN if you are interested.

We once collected some pictures of patcher machines in this thread

 

[mikesc]

On the site that Constabulary linked to in that thread,

http://schiffmann-orthopaedie.de/fussorthopaedie-beckingen-merzig-lebach/antike-schuhmacher-naehmaschinen/

there is a machine ( but we can only see the stand ) which has the same two lions and castle entrance as yours..it says

"LSO Wolfhagen-Bründersen"

if shoepatcher joins in here, or steve ( singermania ) and they can give more info concerning the "chateau in France" that has the same model as shoepatcher's machine on steroids, I'll happily try to find a phone number for the chateau in question and see if I can get in touch with them and find out more..If it isn't too far away, I could maybe visit with my wife, and camera ( I will probably have to swear to her that I'm not gong to come back with yet another sewing machine but we both visit a lot of chateaux anyway each year. 

Btw..we definitely need more of what Constabulary refers to in that thread as "stolen pictures" , actual pictures "stolen"from ebay in particular ( as opposed to just links to ebay ) , a lot of links in that thread 404 because the auctions are now over and so there are no pictures of the machines, and the Russian link is also a 404.

Btw2..what is it with "lions rampant" and sewing machines from Germany ?

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by mikesc

[mikesc]

I just spoke on the phone  with a guy in Belgium who's wife put up a similar machine ( it has much more wear on the hand wheel , so no picture of the factory visible, and the crest with the lions and the castle entrance is not exactly the same ) for sale last year..The crest part on his says "SCHUTZ-MARKE" which he thinks is the name of the company who made it ? I think ( my German is not very good , I lived there, JHQ (Joint Headquarters) Rheindahlen when I was very young in 59 and again in 62, and have forgotten almost all of it, must re-learn it someday )..but I think that "Shutz- marke" means something like " trademark" or "marque déposé" ? Anyway he is going to ask his wife if they still have the machine ( imagine how many machines they must have for him to "not be sure if they still have a particular one around", they must have nearly as many as shoepatcher or singermania ..If they do, he'll scrutinise it it more closely, I'll be phoning him gain later today to see if there are any more details forthcoming, meanwhile here is the photo of the crest area featuring two lions rampant and again a castle entrance, but with a band of decorated work in the form of a letter S  ( made me wonder the "S" ) that they had in their original ad.

The "head" of his wife's machine looks to be the same as the one that UPFrank and Uwe have,

A little more researching around the web says that "shutz-marke" is definitely "trade mark" and that the S is / was  the logo of Adler..pic of a badge from another ( not a shoe patcher machine ) machine

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/79583-schutz-sewing-machine

This has the lions and the castle gateway, maybe (  UPFrank and Uwe ),  your machines are early Adlers ? before they put the "S" into their logo ?

Why would a company whose name begins with a "D"  for Dürkopp or an  "A" for Adler, use an "S" in their logo ?

A long article on the Dürkopp company here,

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/dürkopp-adler-ag-history/

says "By the 1880s several other Bielefeld firms were competing with Dürkopp", maybe the lions and castle entrance is the coat of arms for the town of Bielefeld ? So the machine -( of UPFrank and Uwe ) maybe came from some factory there, but maybe not Dürkopp ?

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by mikesc

[mikesc]

Edit window has passed, so ..Yes, the lions and twin castle turrets entrance is / was  the official crest of Bielefeld

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld

so the machine was made there, the questions remaining are "by whom ?" and "what is the model and number ?"

Edited September 14, 2016 by mikesc

[Uwe]

I came across this Bradbury manual yesterday: http://www.sewmuse.co.uk/bradbury/bradbury a1 repairer threading.htm  It's the closest thing yet to a manual for our machines, I think. It has threading instructions but the picture doesn not show details very well.

In any case you'll need to use one of those long wire tools with a tiny notch at one end to grab the thread and push it down the center of the needle bar. I'll try it out when I get a chance. My machine turns over nicely, but I'll have to find a bobbin to do some test threading and sewing. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Uwe

[TinkerTailor]

It could be a situation like happened bicycles in the mid 50's, where Raleigh bought most of the british cycling industry. They basically went up the street handing out cheques and raleigh stickers for the bikes. Your bikes have these stickers now. There were very little standards at the time, so many companies built similar bikes, but with oddities like different thread pitches on parts and things. For a time, while these companies used up there parts their were raleigh bikes that looked the same but were actually quite different and manufactured by in different factories with different tooling. Over time they were standardized to a homogeneous model.

Adler probably bought up a few smaller makers at to get its start. They would have has to use the casting patterns and tooling they already had in stock until new ones could be made.

Keep in mind, the 1880s were the beginning of mass production and advertising. Before then big companies making larger volumes of machines (for any industry) did not exist. The ideas of mass production and brand/model identity and uniformity were barely even thought of. That is what makes the machines from this area most interesting.

[Uwe]

For a rough price reference, this Ebay listing is the only thing I've seen so far that comes close to my machine: http://r.ebay.com/hWCERT

 

 

 

[Uwe]

For threading, here's how I would do it for the top. You'll need the long piece of notched metal wire. I made my own from a welding wire rod by filing a notch at one end to hold the thread as I'm pushing it down the chute inside the needle bar.

My machine is missing the little lubricant cup that is shown in that Ebay listing I referenced above. 

Sadly, my machine is also missing the shuttle hook, so I can't do any test sewing right now or show that threading detail.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Uwe