Right oil??

[dikman]

Rocky, the reason I (now) know a bit about hydraulic oils is because I just bought a new metal-turning lathe and they specified an ISO oil. I figured that a good motor oil should be fine, but started doing a bit of research first and realised I didn't know as much as I thought I did! The recommended oil is an ISO 68 (which is roughly equivalent to SAE30 motor oil in weight, but quite different in composition). Motor oil, amongst other things, can attack brass/red metal fittings, so is not a good idea in a lathe gearbox.

ISO oils generally don't have a lot of the additives that are in car oils, have anti-corrosion additives and are designed to withstand high pressure/temperatures. I bought some Penrite ISO 68 and was surprised at how thin it is, and to answer your question It's also clear.  An ISO 22 is equivalent to SAE 0W - 5W, so is pretty thin!

I'm not sure about staining (I suspect it probably will) but I'll be using this in my machines from now on (partly 'cos I bought 5 litres of it!).

Edited October 20, 2016 by dikman

[Art]

EVERYBODY uses Lille White oil.  It is a 50/50 mix of light and heavy mineral oil, and here is the kicker, no detergents.  In the "old" days (Wiz and I will remember this) hydraulic oil was just mineral oil.  Nowadays it has detergents and additives, a ton of them to extend the life of the oil and give it better performance characteristics for automatic transmissions and all other hydraulic systems.  By the way, ISO 22, the number 22 is just the viscosity of the oil usually in centistrokes (cSt or  mm²/s); it is actually ISO 3448 - ISO VG 22.  Any wonder why they use just ISO 22?  Defrix No.2 oil is just mineral oil blended to Juki's 169 specification, which just happens to be very close to ISO VG 22 AND drum roll, you guessed it SAE No. 2.  So as the machinery gets more complex, the specifications must get more precise, but lets face it folks, it is just No. 2 mineral oil.

Art

And THAT is more than you ever wanted to know.

[gottaknow]

6 hours ago, Art said:

EVERYBODY uses Lille White oil.  It is a 50/50 mix of light and heavy mineral oil, and here is the kicker, no detergents.  In the "old" days (Wiz and I will remember this) hydraulic oil was just mineral oil.  Nowadays it has detergents and additives, a ton of them to extend the life of the oil and give it better performance characteristics for automatic transmissions and all other hydraulic systems.  By the way, ISO 22, the number 22 is just the viscosity of the oil usually in centistrokes (cSt or  mm²/s); it is actually ISO 3448 - ISO VG 22.  Any wonder why they use just ISO 22?  Defrix No.2 oil is just mineral oil blended to Juki's 169 specification, which just happens to be very close to ISO VG 22 AND drum roll, you guessed it SAE No. 2.  So as the machinery gets more complex, the specifications must get more precise, but lets face it folks, it is just No. 2 mineral oil.

Art

And THAT is more than you ever wanted to know.

I never get tired of learning Art. I just gottaknow. 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I fully agree with everything being said here in terms of oil, BUT if you really must, why try and find 'the equivalent' and just buy what you are asking for?

Juki part number is MDFRX2700C0 for  NEW DEFRIX OIL NO.2, comes in a 700ml bottle for about $20.

Not the best 'value' as a gallon of stainless lilly white is about the same price, but if you want OEM original, get the Juki oil for peace of mind.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[TinkerTailor]

Back in the day, If mineral oil was not available or too expensive, bone oil was the lube of choice, with almond and olive being second and third.

Here is an except from "Manufacture of Lubricants, Shoe Polishes and Leather Dressings" a 1906 english translation of the 6th edition of an older german book:

Sewing Machine Oils Manufacture1906.pdf

Edited October 20, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[dikman]

Art, thanks mate, always good to expand one's knowledge.

Gregg, problem I've got is that I've no idea if Lilly White is even available here. There's only one sewing machine place I can think of and I think they sell their own brand of oil. Hence me trying to find out just what the stuff is so that I can get something close.

TT, that document is interesting (but I don't think I'll be trying to duplicate the recipes in a hurry!). We know a clockmaker (semi-retired now, but still fixing clocks, including ours). I once asked him what he uses to oil his clocks and he said the best thing is Sperm Whale oil - if you can get it!

 

[mikesc]

@dikman..try asking for "Vaseline oil"*, or "white cycle oil", or "white compressor oil" ( if the latter, tell them that you want the kind that goes into the "inline airtool oilers"..the ones that you put in your airline so as to be able to run air wrenches etc..You can get it in 250ml upto 30 litres..it comes in "clear" ( white ) or "straw"...you want "clear"..it is what is known as "lilly white" in the USA..Lots of companies "rebrand" ( pour it into smaller containers with their own labels on, and hugely increase the price ) "Vaseline oil".

*yes it can get you some "remarks" if you ask for it by that name..

[TinkerTailor]

All you are looking for is highly refined mineral oil. Any oil of the right viscosity will work, even olive oil. The Lilly White is called that because it has been highly refined and filtered to remove contaminants. The reason for this is clean-up, as Eric pointed out, the contaminents/additiives in other oils will stain and are very hard to get out.  Thus specially filtered and purified oils, white as a lilly, were produced for sewing because they needed a non staining oil.

Pure refined clear mineral oil is also used by veterinarian and farmers for various purposes in cattle and horses. It is used as a hand/instrument lubricant for instances when you gotta go into where the sun don't shine. It is also put in cattle oilers too help keep off the flies. Check with vets and farm supply places, you may find it in farmer sized jugs and farmer pricing.......

[mikesc]

Olive oil will eventually polymerise ( "gum up" and leave deposits ) if exposed to air..and it isn't stable at higher temperatures ( like those you can get in bearings ) it is actually full of contaminants , run a chromatogram on it to see..the contaminants are what give the olive oils from various localities their different tastes..Olive oil is also not a "mineral oil" ( "mineral oil" is normally used to designate a petroleum derived product ) ..it is an "organic oil, as Sunflower oil, linseed oil etc.
"Vaseline oil" is another name for what the vets and farmers use...it is a mineral oil..and is stable at higher temperatures and pressures ( like those in bearings ) than organically derived oils, and it does not polymerise, so no danger of gumming up or deposits.it is also not at all acidic, which almost all organic oils are slightly..so it will not "attack" metal..It is also not usually alkaline ( it is made to be PH neutral ) so it wont attack natural fibres like cotton or the collagens in leather ..

Edited October 21, 2016 by mikesc

[TinkerTailor]

1 minute ago, mikesc said:

Olive oil will eventually polymerise ( "gum up" and leave deposits ) if exposed to air..and it isn't stable at higher temperatures ( like those you can get in bearings ) it is actually full of contaminants , run a chromatogram on it to see..the contaminants are what give the olive oils from various localities their different tastes..Olive oil is also not a "mineral oil" ( mineral oil is used to designate a petroleum derived product ) ..it is an "organic oil, as Sunflower oil, linseed oil etc.
"Vaseline oil" is another name for what the vets and farmers use...it is a mineral oil.

I was not saying that olive oil is a mineral oil, only that ANY oil of the right viscosity will lubricate the machine properly, organic or inorganic, olive oil included. What i was pointing out is that the reason people use Lilly white sewing mineral oil is less to do with lubrication properties and more to do with clean up and longevity of the lube compared to the other lubricating options.

True, any vegetable based oil will go rancid and is full of contaminants. It will lubricate a machine though. It will end up building up inside and gumming up the works as well as staining what it drips on, but it will work as a lube for now.  Automatic transmission fluid will also work great as a lube, so long as you only work with red leather.....

Now how to get pure refined mineral oil when in an area without a sewing machine dealer, and not pay 20 bux for 8 ounces in the crafters size bottle at Michaels.