Sell Adler 69 or try to fix it?

[laurend]

I've been working with an older Adler 69 machine to do some low-volume sewing of small leather goods out if medium-weight leathers. I purchased the machine locally about two years ago for about $2250 all in with tax and local delivery, etc. So far I've been less than satisfied with it. Here's a summary of the various issues I've had (you can assume that I've tried all all of the self-help I could think of such as needle sizes/types, different leathers, adhesives, threads, threading, cleaning, oil, etc.) :

- Thread shredding: needle thread is shedding as I sew. It gets worse the longer I sew without stopping. In the worst cases it breaks. I've tried replacing the thread with high-end, brand-new #69 and it still does it. That last mechanic that I had take a look could not figure it out.

- Bobbin thread tangles sometimes when starting or stopping stitching.

- Stitch quality is inconsistent. Sometimes I get nice stitches (usually after I've been visited by a mechanic), sometimes the tension seems to waver causing needle thread loops to stand out on the bottom side (this is a more recent problem that I haven't been able to resolve on my own).

- When I insert the bobbin into the bobbin case and pull on the thread, the bobbin thread seems to have inconsistent tension, sticking and releasing. I can't see or feel any burrs or debris. No mechanic has mentioned this before. I don't know when it started.

- When it is actually sewing well, it doesn't handle sewing over transitions of material thickness very well. This has been the case from day 1, as I mentioned it to the sales guy in the showroom before taking it home. We thought it was a needle problem at the time. It will often skip a stitch or change stitch length when going over a particularly aggressive seam. This was surprising to me, as I've seen videos of less-expensive machines handling variations in thickness very well.  

- Deep scratches have appeared on my aluminum bobbins, looking as if they have been marred by a needle. This might be more recent. 

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And then are some things about the design of the machine that just sort of bother me: 

- Would be great to have a larger bobbin

- I would love to have the presser foot operate by a knee lift rather than a dedicated pedal.

- Overall, the machine feels old and clunky. Are newer machines more responsive/fluid to operate or is this the nature of the beast when dealing with walking foot machines? I have an older singer 591 machine for garment sewing that is a dream to work with. 

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I am relocating my studio in a couple of weeks out of NYC to rural NJ, where there will be a much smaller pool of mechanics who will be able to come service the machine. That said, it's hard to tell if the mechanics I've hired in the city have really been any good. Does anyone think this machine is fixable? I purchased it because a) it seemed to sew well in the showroom and 2) I really wanted to buy a non-Chinese machine. 

Now that my business has picked up a little I'm thinking of trying to sell this Adler before I leave the city and upgrading to something more reliable/fun. But looking at the options, if I'm not interested in a Chinese machine, I'm not really seeing any used Adlers or Jukis in the $3-5k range for sale right now locally. Ideally, the machine that I purchased originally would just work as its supposed to! But I'm worried that I purchased a lemon and it can't ever really do what I want it to for a long period of time.

Please let me know if you guys have any advice. Thanks! 

 

[MADMAX22]

A shame you couldnt have taken it back after you got it. The machine obviously shouldnt be doing those things "however" there is always a reason a mechanical item doesnt perform as designed. It seems that something is miss adjusted, a wrong component, or a component is worn out. Sounds like ya need some new mechanics honestly. 

[Constabulary]

Where are you located? Maybe some one can recommend a good dealer close to you.

Hard to tell from a distance what going on with your machine. Post some pictures and a video if possible. My 1st guess would be the needle and hook timing. Maybe it´s just the needle bar that needs and adjustment in hight. Or maybe the hook tip is too far away from the needle or the hook tip is worn.

[Kohlrausch]

2 hours ago, laurend said:

 

- Deep scratches have appeared on my aluminum bobbins, looking as if they have been marred by a needle. This might be more recent.

Hi,

 

I'ld check and experiment with the needle-hook-distance. Maybe the needlebar needs to be turned a little, thereby changing the needleposition like an excenter. Then adjust the hook accordingly. Also check if the needlehole in the stitching plate has any scratches and matches the needle size. According to Schmetz literature the needle hole should be almost twice the diameter of the needle. Thoroughly check every single threadguide for scratches with a strong loupe (10x and up). Do it yourself, don't rely on a mechanic. If it is an older machine threadguides may have been sawn down by decades of sewing, thereby leaving sharp canyons. Especially so if the previous owner has done a lot of sewing with thinner thread than your are using now.

Dürkopp Adler is still available in Bielefeld:

DÜRKOPP ADLER AG
Potsdamer Straße 190
33719 Bielefeld
Telefon: 0049521 / 925 - 00
Telefax: 0049521 / 925 - 2646
https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/de

Schmetz also has good experts

Ferd. Schmetz GmbH
Bicherouxstr. 53-59
52134 Herzogenrath

Telefon: +49 (0)24 06 / 85-0
Telefax : +49 (0)24 06 / 85-222
E-Mail: info@schmetz.com

http://www.schmetz.com/de/

I have not been happy seeking advice from Organ and Groz Beckert.

 

HTH

Greets

Ralf C.

[dikman]

My first thoughts are also needle/hook timing. I would check all the settings to do with that area. Also the condition of the hook itself for excessive wear and for any play in the bobbin carrier. Is the hook causing the fraying? I've had that problem where the hook catches a strand of the thread rather than the whole thread (hook/needle timing). And as Kohlrausch said check all the thread guides/path (I've also found deep grooves on the inside of the tension discs on one of my machines, which can cause a problem if your thread isn't the same size as the grooves).

While it's probably nice to think you're buying a quality German machine over a "cheap" Chinese one, the reality is that for what you spent you could have bought a new Cowboy/Cobra machine, which wouldn't have given you the problems you're now having. Not all Chinese stuff is bad, they do make some very good gear.

[cdthayer]

I would check for two things:  needle height and check spring operation.

Needle deflection can cause the needle tip to hit things it’s not supposed to hit, and could cause the marks on your bobbins.

If the thread  tension check spring is not releasing to allow the thread to form a nice loop for the hook, but instead holding the loop snug to the back side of the needle, the hook tip can pierce the thread instead of going into the loop.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[laurend]

6 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Where are you located? Maybe some one can recommend a good dealer close to you.

I'm in NYC, moving in a couple of weeks to Hopewell, NJ which is central/west NJ, near Princeton and New Hope, PA. 

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. The gist I'm getting is that at this point it's worth trying to repair properly? 

[brmax]

You may need an additional machine, for these times. I would guess to say handling and moving a new machine at the new location to be considerably less.

This really brings up part of the production we have to find an interest in, just because the call / arrive time of a sew tech mechanic. As you mentioned already changing items to be known issues, and so great moves there along with finding ourselves having learned more about our biz and benefit some.

On the topic of moves it may be an option sending just the machine head out with materials used, to a brick n mortar place to evaluate and or repair.

In some searching around here, there are some great packing and shipping techniques used by others that work well and in honest opinion "required".  It maybe a couple hundred shipping with ins. fwiw

In checking some mentioned possibilities from other replies patiently, there's only a path forward. Best recommendation I can say following the others is think of each as a step in the manual and they most times rely on each other and so best left as part of the procedure. 

good day

Floyd

[gottaknow]

Your machine just isn't set properly. A good mechanic should be able to dial it in for you with little issue.

That being said, not all mechanics are created equal. I'd keep looking for a good one, and don't pay if it isn't fixed. Best of luck.

Regards, Eric

[Uwe]

The Durkopp Adler 69 Service Manual will allow you to check if key settings are what they should be.

I'm not saying you should adjust it yourself (although many people do). Just about anybody with a cheap caliper and loupe can check if certain settings are within spec. Just compare the settings given in the service manual with your machine. Don't loosen any screws, just compare.

Chances are, you will find a few settings that are just not right, most likely in the hook area. Then it's up to you to decide if you want to try and fix it yourself or to have a mechanic do it. If a mechanic does it, give them the service manual and ask that they bring the machine within spec, not just make it sew a few stitches on their bench.

The service manual will also allow to check the mechanic's work after you get the machine back.

 

[Yetibelle]

I understand the frustration.  You already have a significant amount of time and money into the machine so I recommend keeping it.  I have noticed that a few simple adjustment and or part replacement and they work like new (or better than new in your case). If you can post some pictures and videos of your issues the forum has a lot of experts that can also help.  Some "expert repair" people may not be that expert on every machine brand.  Pfaff and Adler may look like Singer Machines but they have their own special needs that set them apart from their Singer cousins.  So you really need a Adler expert.  They look intimidating to work on yourself but it is not impossible (well that 72w19 almost broke me).  What we do here is take the slow and steady approach, take pictures, remove a part, then put the part back then test, then keep working along each section of the machine until you find the issue.  That all being said, maybe you just have the wrong needle, or your not threading it right? 

 

 

[shoepatcher]

laurend,

1.   What is the exact model of your Adler? 

2.  Get us a few pictures of the machine head and it's set up.   Then we can better advise you where to go.  A short video of it sewing would help as well.

glenn

[RockyAussie]

1 hour ago, Yetibelle said:

I understand the frustration.  You already have a significant amount of time and money into the machine so I recommend keeping it.  I have noticed that a few simple adjustment and or part replacement and they work like new (or better than new in your case). If you can post some pictures and videos of your issues the forum has a lot of experts that can also help.  Some "expert repair" people may not be that expert on every machine brand.  Pfaff and Adler may look like Singer Machines but they have their own special needs that set them apart from their Singer cousins.  So you really need a Adler expert.  They look intimidating to work on yourself but it is not impossible (well that 72w19 almost broke me).  What we do here is take the slow and steady approach, take pictures, remove a part, then put the part back then test, then keep working along each section of the machine until you find the issue.  That all being said, maybe you just have the wrong needle, or your not threading it right? 

 

 

I watched the video above and was surprised to see the thread at section 1.3mins in being looped behind the thread return tension spring post as I have never done that and have not had any problems that I know of. I checked online and saw this video that is threaded the same as I always have. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHq0N0Umz08

I do not know if the shown example is correct. Can anyone here verify which way it should be or if it matters. The winding through of the thread on the stand at the start going through the 2 holes makes me wonder if the operator really knows what he is doing.

The uneven tension on the bobbin mentioned makes me think to look into whether a new bobbin case should be tried to compare with. I always put a drop of oil onto the bobbin holding post and into the back of the bobbin case between most bobbin changes. This makes it quieter and smoother running and helps to keep the tension more reliable. Make sure the bobbins do not have any restrictions when turned in the bobbin case without any thread in. Sometimes the case can have damage from a broken needle and so on. I do prefer steel bobbins as against aluminium as I think they are less likely to pick up rubbish and do any scouring on the bobbin tube or the post.

Changing the foot lift to a knee lift is quite easy and would be no problem to do.

I think it is possible that you may need a good mechanic to go over it but mostly to get you to understand exactly how and why different adjustments work such as the feet tensions and how this relates to the varying thicknesses and the tightness in materials being sewn. Usually I run them as loose as possible but tight enough not to let the job lift off the table at all when starting off.

There are a lot of different things involved in getting a machine to run right and unless your doing the same work all of the time a good knowledge of how to make the machine work the way you want will be true with a new machine in short time as well.

Hope that helps some. Regards Brain

 

 

[laurend]

Thanks for all of the great feedback. I will be very distracted over the next two weeks prepping for my move, but will try to take some photos, videos and do some self-checks mentioned above. I'll post back when I'm able to do all of that!

[laurend]

In the meantime, here are some photos that I have on hand of the machine and the model number. I'm also ordering a new bobbin case and some new bobbins. Will try some aluminum and some steel. I feel partial to the aluminum ones only because I had another machine at one time sew well only with aluminum bobbins. Not really sure why! It's like I had a cat growing up that only liked the 'salmon' flavored cat food. But I suppose that was a different machine entirely and has nothing to do with this one. I'm open to all possibilities with this thing.

**EDIT** I'm actually having trouble finding bobbins in anything but aluminum. Anyone have a reliable source for this? 

Edited December 29, 2016 by laurend

[brmax]

Good Day

Its clear to me with the photos this is a keeper; with that it doesn't look to be broke in yet.

So in this part of the forum everyone wants to help in their replies, so no pushing to make any moves.

Good luck with your location moves and when ever others can help in some of the steps either way jus give a shout.

The machine move would be best just my opinion, with removing that machine head from the table no-matter and covering securely with several move blankets.

keep us posted, and moving? advil is my friend

Floyd

[shoepatcher]

laurend,

This Adler 69-FA-373 means this machine was originally fitted with a thread trimmer.  The knife may have been removed but other parts might remain.  Send us some better pics of the shuttle area.

glenn

[Constabulary]

Machine is definitely a keeper.

Well - I´m not 100% sure but the tension unit looks like one from a Pfaff 138. That does not mean your tension unit does not work with the machine but I think its not the original tension unit. Adler tension units look different they look like this:

and yours has 2 tensions (thats for double needle machines, sewing tucks and so on) and seems you run the thread through both of them - thats basically wrong.

Try to thread your machine a different way - go from the thread guide on top of your machine directly to your tension unit and thread it as shown in this picture and try again sewing.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Constabulary

[shoepatcher]

Also,

In the video on the 69 showing how to wind bobbin, thread machine and sew, the machine is NOT thread correctly in the take up spring area. It is threaded behind the location pin on the the take spring assembly and that is WRONG.  I have owned and sewn on these machines and you do no thread behind that pin!

glenn

[Hockeymender]

For what it's worth, I've had two of these machines and I can say that when they are set up correctly they are absolutely wonderful machines to sew on. I think they require a little more tweaking than say a 335, but once dialed in they are real work horses. After seeing those pics I'm kinda sorry I gave mine up.

[RockyAussie]

9 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Machine is definitely a keeper.

Well - I´m not 100% sure but the tension unit looks like one from a Pfaff 138. That does not mean your tension unit does not work with the machine but I think its not the original tension unit. Adler tension units look different they look like this:

and yours has 2 tensions (thats for double needle machines, sewing tucks and so on) and seems you run the thread through both of them - thats basically wrong.

Try to thread your machine a different way - go from the thread guide on top of your machine directly to your tension unit and thread it as shown in this picture and try again sewing.

 

 

Yes I agree my 69 machine has the same looking unit as Constabulary has shown in the top picture. I wonder if some mechanic has installed this unit with the intention of increasing the top tension further without tightening the spring all the way in, as happens at times when using a large bobbin thread through thick material??? At any rate I would take off the tension discs of both and check if they have any roughness or grooves. Periodically I take mine off and polish them with a rag wheel and tripoli polish on a bench grinder. This may help with the top thread fraying problem mentioned. Another problem on some threads is when going very fast, stopping and going fast again. When I stitch full belt lengths at times the heat generated on the needle starts to melt the thread and I have found it best to slow down the machine the last 3 or 4 inches before stopping. Sorry I can't help with the steel bobbins as I am in Australia. Regards Brian

[RockyAussie]

9 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Also,

In the video on the 69 showing how to wind bobbin, thread machine and sew, the machine is NOT thread correctly in the take up spring area. It is threaded behind the location pin on the the take spring assembly and that is WRONG.  I have owned and sewn on these machines and you do no thread behind that pin!

glenn

Thanks for that Shoepatcher.

[laurend]

Yes! I always figured something was up with the tension discs because they never looked like the ones in pictures of other Adler machines. I am moving this weekend and haven't/won't have time to do anything right now but can't wait to check on these issues that you have mentioned here and report back. It would be very nice to have this machine in good working order.