Cowboy 4500 / Cobra Class 4 Questions

[JeffGC]

I've had a Cowboy 4500 for five or six years and I'm totally pleased with the machine.  Recently, I've had a few questions regarding the use of the holster plate; this might be the subject of an additional post.  During the last few days, I've watched A LOT of videos on Youtube.  A sincere thank you to the companies that have taken the time to produce excellent and informative videos.

I have two questions:

1. My machine has a vertical rod (about 4") on the top.  It was my understanding that is was necessary to route the thread through it before the adjustable tension disks.  When watching the videos, I noticed that most machines didn't have this rod, routing the thread directly from the arm, above the thread, to the tension disks.  Thoughts?
2. Timing: Some videos have you move the stitch length to the maximum, while others have you set to zero before checking the relationship of the hook to the needle.  Which is best/correct?

Thanks for your help.

Jeff Chosid

Edited March 11, 2017 by JeffGC

[Uwe]

1. If you still have the thread guide rod, use it. Otherwise it will feel neglected.

2. The Juki TSC-441 engineers manual (Juki 441 Engineers Manual.pdf) uses stitch length set to"0" when checking hook-to-needle timing, so that's the "official" way to do it.

 

[SolarLeatherMachines]

1.  Many dealers and owners don't install the thread guide because it breaks off really easily.  The machine is indifferent to it, but the thread guide is a little sensitive.  You might want to talk nice to it.  

2.  The best method is the method that works for you.  

[brmax]

With the 441 types as i recall

I had read in several post of some issues with threads and many times these post had mention Twisting and general a pita. 

As an experienced person addressed before the use of the top thread guide ( an option ) somtimes, can be used to remedy the thread problem or at minimum help this. 

This i read before, getting my used Cobra and with a spool of old/sun tightened thread. Needless to say i had a few issues. This i fixed with a new spool and in this ordeal. I recalled the old post and re-read and followed up with a thread post for the 441.  Thanks Wiz

Something i had particular concern with that some of you gurus can as usual help with and did. Anyway noticing the twist in the stitch "difference" from top and bottom side. Clearly way more on top, so much so even i was curious and so noticed with the thread post on top this actually helped. Thanks Wiz, appreciate it

well this is like standin at short stop with glove on hip and other hand as well on hip spittin sunflower seeds, and im outa seeds. But you can bet im not gonna kumbyya with whoever on the pitchers mound

thank you all

Floyd

[MADMAX22]

 Brmax when did the thread guide become an option? Thought all these machines came with them. 

Personally I can't see not using it unless the lube pot is installed but that's just me. 

[OLDNSLOW]

is-was this a common item to both cobra and cowboy if so anyone have any photos of what is being referred to?

Thanks

[JimTimber]

21 minutes ago, OLDNSLOW said:

is-was this a common item to both cobra and cowboy if so anyone have any photos of what is being referred to?

Thanks

The guide post is sticking up above the "Y".

[CowboyBob]

Once in a while certain threads will slide out of first tension while sewing so we always recommend running the thread through 2-holes & this applies to all machines w/a spool that has 2-holes,Singer 111w,Juki 562,563,Consew 206,226,277 & etc.

[Cobra Steve]

We don't use the post because it adds too much tension to the top thread. We haven't used it in 8 years. It works fine without it. We make sure that when we thread the machine, we go through the first thread guide then through the tension discs and back to the thread guide, this will insure that the thread will not jump out of the tension. This is how we do it but other methods would be fine also.

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, Cobra Steve said:

We don't use the post because it adds too much tension to the top thread. We haven't used it in 8 years. It works fine without it. We make sure that when we thread the machine, we go through the first thread guide then through the tension discs and back to the thread guide, this will insure that the thread will not jump out of the tension. This is how we do it but other methods would be fine also.

Would it be too much trouble for a pic of this Steve. It sounds like the tension discs would be nearly fully surrounded by my understanding.

[JimTimber]

3 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Would it be too much trouble for a pic of this Steve. It sounds like the tension discs would be nearly fully surrounded by my understanding.

I'm pretty sure this is demonstrated in the Cobra videos on youtube.  It's interesting to see the variations on threading between the manufacturers (distributors, really) for what's virtually identical equipment.

When I use the guide rod on my 441, I'm not using more than one hole of the 4.  It's literally just there to position the thread above the working parts of the machine below, because the table my machine came with has a corner mounted thread holder and it's a long run from the guide on it to the upper thread guide on the lube pot.

[Uwe]

 

3 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

sure that when we thread the machine, we go through the first thread guide then through the tension discs and back to the thread guide,

I'm picturing this (on my Cowboy 4500):

Edited March 17, 2017 by Uwe

[RockyAussie]

31 minutes ago, Uwe said:

 

I'm picturing this (on my Cowboy 4500):

Thanks Uwe and Jim Timber. I have recently bought a 441 with a guide rod that is mounted along with the bobbin tension discs. What threw me here is that my understanding of doing the tension on this machine is to tighten the second tension 1 turn to 1/2 half turn at the primary tension. As Uwe kindly has shown in the pic above I believe the surface contact area on the thread would be more than if going straight down to the secondary tension. Therefore has that procedure of tightening the 2 got to be done any differently?  Regards Brian

[JimTimber]

I don't go back through that first thread guide at the top tension disk, but I run it through the guide at the second disk before wrapping it twice and then coming out the guide again to then go to the take up spring (I'm pretty sure that's the Cowboy directions).

The second tension disk is like a windlass, so having more complete contact seems like it should make it respond better to adjustments (less slippage).