Glue alternative to lining wet formed items with suede

[BDAZ]

Glue is not my friend! It's messy and too easy to ruin a piece with a rouge drip. It stinks and when I use spray adhesives outside, a wind usually comes up and blows the tacky surfaces into each other. If all goes well I often don't get the lining square with the leather and i have to glue in little patches. Sometime I line with fabric and the glue saturates the fabric is some areas ruining it. I have also tried water soluble cements, wood glues..all a huge PIA.

I ran across HeatnBond at the Walmart sewing section yesterday. I tested it out with a hand Iron and it appears to be amazing! After cooling I was unable to separate either the fabric or the suede from the flesh side of some 5-6 oz vegtan.

To that end, I ordered a 15" square heat press. If this all works out, this product could cut my production time down by 30%, cheaper than using glues, and potentially no ruined pieces.

Has anyone used this stuff with a press? Short term tests indicate the stuff works great and withstands flexing, is inexpensive and the temperatures required don't damage leathers and fabrics. In fact, it appears to be easier to use a fabric lining then to dye the exposed flesh side of unlined products. (I use drum dyed leather from Wickett-Craig. I supply for resale to companies who have my products in their catalogs, so color consistency is critical) 

Thanks for your input,

Bob

[RockyAussie]

Interesting stuff. Here's a link I just looked at on the product.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmDvjE14tek  I would be curious to know how it would go on a curve with a heat gun.I will have to see if available here in Australia and give it a try.

 

[BDAZ]

First off, I used the Ultrahold only and noticed no issues stitching with my Cowboy machine. Nothing was "gummed up". I also used a hand iron to melt the paper backed adhesive into the flesh side of the project first, then removed the paper and ironed the suede or fabric onto the the leather.

As to using a heatgun, probably not because it requires heat AND pressure BUT it does take wet forming with out issues.

I am optimistic that the press arriving today will allow me to laminate half a dozen pieces simultaneously. The unit comes with a silicone cover sheet, and additional silicone sheets are available, which would be useful for even hand ironing projects. BTW I used a granite stone with a scrap piece of fabric to be able to get firm and even pressure on the item.

My heat press arrived this morning!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BCUUIY4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I felt sorry for the post man who had to haul the huge box to the door in the 100F heat.

 

Unboxed it and plugged it in. Set the temp to 350F and the time to 20 seconds and an a test. I pressed the film to some tartan fabric, let it cool and removed the release paper. The adhesive film was perfect! I then took a leather piece, flesh side down, and placed it on the adhesive and closed the press for 20 seconds. The result was PERFECT! The platen is 15" x 15". I  did a similar test using sheep suede and also perfect! The suede separated before the adhesive failed AND I tested it on a bag flap with repeated flexings. As least as good as glue and probably better.

 

This is the Business!...

 

Bob

[Brianm77]

Interesting!!!

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, BDAZ said:

First off, I used the Ultrahold only and noticed no issues stitching with my Cowboy machine. Nothing was "gummed up". I also used a hand iron to melt the paper backed adhesive into the flesh side of the project first, then removed the paper and ironed the suede or fabric onto the the leather.

As to using a heatgun, probably not because it requires heat AND pressure BUT it does take wet forming with out issues.

I am optimistic that the press arriving today will allow me to laminate half a dozen pieces simultaneously. The unit comes with a silicone cover sheet, and additional silicone sheets are available, which would be useful for even hand ironing projects. BTW I used a granite stone with a scrap piece of fabric to be able to get firm and even pressure on the item.

My heat press arrived this morning!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BCUUIY4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I felt sorry for the post man who had to haul the huge box to the door in the 100F heat.

 

Unboxed it and plugged it in. Set the temp to 350F and the time to 20 seconds and an a test. I pressed the film to some tartan fabric, let it cool and removed the release paper. The adhesive film was perfect! I then took a leather piece, flesh side down, and placed it on the adhesive and closed the press for 20 seconds. The result was PERFECT! The platen is 15" x 15". I  did a similar test using sheep suede and also perfect! The suede separated before the adhesive failed AND I tested it on a bag flap with repeated flexings. As least as good as glue and probably better.

 

This is the Business!...

 

Bob

Thanks Bob. When you say it takes wet forming without issues can I ask what you mean by that? I think of wet forming as being leather being cast or formed into a shape and I can't understand how you could then use a flat press.Regards Brian

[BDAZ]

Brian,

What I meant was that the laminated suede lined leather wet forms with no problem.

Bob

[RockyAussie]

Thanks Bob. I have never done or thought to wet form with the suede attached before. I can see a lot of potential with this product for attaching cut out pieces to other pieces and I will have to give it a try if I can find where to get it here.It could save a lot of time when making some products like these picture below I think.

[BDAZ]

After a month or so of using the heat press and adhesive I am STOKED! I figure it saves me 30% or more on assembly time by replacing spray glue. I am able to laminate 5 or 6 pieces at a time. The cost of adding a nice fabric to the flesh side of a pouch flap is negligible and approaches the cost and trouble of dying.Less trouble and slightly more cost. Also rockey, you could probably use the material for all your appliques.

I am currently using 260F at 30 seconds with a silicone cover sheet on the press.

I am also testing a double sided  tape offered by the same company, which appears superior to the Tandy tape, fits the Tandy dispenser and is easier to apply due to the transparent backing.

[beltbuckles]

so, im struggling to picture how this all works out, but this could help me.. is there a video or demonstration of how this process works...    is this still what you are currently using?

[Mark842]

Following this...very interesting. Curious to see updates with the press and how this ultrabond stands up to time

[Bob Blea]

Thanks for posting this.  I've had the same problems with trying to glue fabric to the flesh side of leather.  I'm looking forward to giving this a try!

[BDAZ]

After 5 months of using Heat n' Bond, I am totally convinced. My days of glueing suede or fabric linings using spray or brushed on glues are over. What used to take half an hour with a good possibility of scewing the pooch are over. 

I have a 15" x 15" press and heat to 250F for 30 seconds. I bond a large sheet of adhesive to a piece of suede or fabric, then when I need it, I simply trim to the size of the item, toss it in the press for 30 seconds and I'm done. No drying, clean up, sticky fingers, etc.

I have not had the bond fail in any of the hundreds of commercial items I have made in the prior 5 months.

Another change I have made is using leather tape instead of gluing before stitching. Again, no muss, no fuss and no spoiled pieces. Good quality tape does almost as well as glue.

Bob

 

[garypl]

Thanks for the update Bob - sounds like something I want to try.  I just started laying out a laptop bag and I think I will try using the Ultrahold tape to hold gussets in place before stitching.  Have you used the tape for this purpose?

Gary

[LatigoAmigo]

I have used these adhesive sheets before with success, but was rather disappointed when I discovered that the adhesive would not stick to some Horween Chromexcel leather that I used for a project, leather that is heavily oiled and referred to as "stuffed." Of course glue didn't stick very well either.

[garypl]

I just experimented using the tape to glue two pieces of 3-4 oz veg tan and it held very well, except I think it may not work as well on thicker leather.  I worry that the leather will burn before the heat gets through the leather to melt the glue.  I will probably stick to using it to attac cloth lining to leather - seems to work great for that.

[BDAZ]

On 12/7/2017 at 8:07 AM, garypl said:

Thanks for the update Bob - sounds like something I want to try.  I just started laying out a laptop bag and I think I will try using the Ultrahold tape to hold gussets in place before stitching.  Have you used the tape for this purpose?

Gary

That's all I use. I make sure I burnish it first then peel the release paper and burnish the edge. Works as well as glue without the mess!

One last tip, tack the paper to the liner (suede, fabric)  first with just enough time tokeep it in place. Then apply to the project and give it the 30 seconds. You can "cook" the adhesive with too much time.

Bob

[fredk]

Reading thru this it reminds me of the sheets of mounting adhesive I used to use to mount photographs to mount boards and canvas and other flat surfaces, whatever would fit in my 20 x 32 inch mounting press. Similar temperatures and procedures. I once mounted some b&w photos onto canvas duck for an artist who then wrapped them around columns and posts in her display venue.

[OLDNSLOW]

what's missing here is some of the vendors that were accessed for supplies to help other speed up the ordering process and put it all into play or experimentation

 

[garypl]

I bought the tape at Walmart.  It was cheap - $2.00 for a 10 yard roll...

[BDAZ]

On 12/7/2017 at 6:18 PM, garypl said:

I just experimented using the tape to glue two pieces of 3-4 oz veg tan and it held very well, except I think it may not work as well on thicker leather.  I worry that the leather will burn before the heat gets through the leather to melt the glue.  I will probably stick to using it to attac cloth lining to leather - seems to work great for that.

I don't use the heatnbond tape, but the Tandy double sided tape which works without heat.

Bob

[BDAZ]

Just an update,

 

I have been using HeatnBond on all my production products for both suede and fabric lining. The results are fantastic. I have had no failures in hundreds of products shipped and no ruined items either. The only issues I have had is forgetting to remove the release paper before closing the press. I have saved a huge amount of production time. "Drying time" is now 15 seconds.

I also have replaced gluing edges prior to stitching with Tandy double sided tape in 1/4 and 1/8 widths. Another huge time saving. I do find that the tape won't adhere well to some fabrics I use for lining until I wipe down the edges with alcohol.

I have also purchased a tacking iron for more difficult items when I want the lining to be absolutely stable before closing the press. I only need 1/4 overlap instead of an inch when I used spray adhesive.

If you want to test it, Heat n Bond is available at Walmarts. You can use a home iron set to +-300F. I use 250F on the press for 30 seconds.

Bob

[Sheilajeanne]

I think this thread just save a tote bag project I made a huge mistake on. I lined what I THOUGHT was going to be the inside of the bag with lightweight pigskin. When it came time to assemble the bag, I realized the inside was going to be the ugly, fuzzy unlined leather, that had splotches of dye on it!

I spent the night dreaming about how I could fix this. Nothing came to mind that wasn't going to be a huge hassle, and take up tons of time as well as restitching most of the bag. Even then, I would likely have bare suede showing at the top of the tote!

Then, I searched for tote lining and came up with this!

Walmart, here I come!

I am still going to have to restitch 3 seams, including the most difficult one, where the 4 layers of the bag come together at the bottom, but meh, if the fugly inside of the tote is then hidden, I'm good with that! 

All 4 sides of the new liner will be stitched, so I don't have to worry about separation, even if the union between leather and liner isn't perfect. Is it more difficult to get this stuff to stick to fuzzy cheap leather than the smoother stuff?

Will tackle a more sophisticated bag liner with my next project. Have FINALLY been able to find that Molly tote kit I've been searching for for so long!   It turned out my friendly neighbourhood Tandy's in Barrie had 2 of them at the deeply discounted price of $67.00!! Oh, was I a happy camper on Friday!!

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Sheilajeanne

[BDAZ]

I have recently been using HeatnBond to laminate ink jet printed canvas and fabric to the flesh side of leather. I have has no issues with HeatNBond sticking to the fussy side of linings. I use a setting of 250F for 30 seconds on my press. For an Iron, I would follow their suggestions, maybe a bit higher and of course, don't skimp on the pressure.

Bob

[Sheilajeanne]

Thanks, Bob! Yes, will be using an iron. Don't have a heat press.

Now, if only I can find a way to hide the ugly glue splotches on the outside of the back of the bag that happened when I glued the other liner pieces...

Bye, bye glue splotches from now on!

Edited July 2, 2018 by Sheilajeanne

[BDAZ]

 

Bob