Consew 226R thread breaking and tension controller sticking

[Carrie88]

HI, I am hoping to get some help with my Consew 226R. I have had it for a few weeks, purchased from an ex upholsterer. It was very dirty and some parts were not attached, so i have been cleaning it up, putting it back together and ordering the odd screw, spring etc online to replace things. I now have it sewing and operational, however I just can't get the thread tension right. I thread it up according to the manual (and according to the amazingly helpful youtube videos that I've found). But what happens it that the thread seems to be too loose when the needle comes up and then the thread jumps off the thread controller disc, out of the spring and then wraps itself around the back of the thread controller nut, or sometimes the back of the thread controller itself. I have tried various settings by turning the thread controller more to the left or more to the right, I have tightened the spring, moved the spring stop up or down - and I just can't crack it. I pulled to whole tension bracket set up apart and checked each component, and everything 'seems' to be working as it should. I have read posts on this forum referring to worn pins behind the bracket, but it's difficult to tell if this is worn, with nothing to compare to it too. 

Also, even on the few occasions where the thread does stay inside the thread controller for a while, the thread ends up breaking because it seems to get stuck up inside the tension discs and then it just breaks down at the needle. I got this machine quite cheap and I'm now feeling very frustrated that it won't even sew for 10cm without something going wrong. I'm really hoping there is something simple I've missed. 

Really appreciate any help offered that will save me going to a sewing machine mechanic just yet (will be my last resort due to finances) - and I can see that there are many experience users on this site. Carrie. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Carrie88

[dikman]

Ok, 3rd photo is almost right. You could probably try coming into the top tension disk and straight out the bottom into the lower disk, i.e. not wrapped around the pin. In the lower disc the thread should come around the disk, as you've done, and then up past that little bent lug you can see in the second photo pulling the check spring (that little bent spring) with it. If this doesn't make sense I'll see if I can get a suitable photo of the path.

[mikesc]

Like dikman said the thread should not be wrapped around the little pin in the the 3rd photo, it should go directly from the tension discs down to the the spring controller..
that little pin is there to stop the tension discs from rotating and thus releasing tension, it is absolutely not there to wrap the thread around..and the person who made the video that says that you should wrap the thread around the pin should be taken out and beaten with a clue by four..and the video ( and any thing on the web that is based upon it, should be taken down and burned or nuked from off planet ( it is the only way to be sure )..passing the thread around the pin is an abomination and will always end in tears and gnashing of teeth.

Edited June 24, 2017 by mikesc

[Carrie88]

Hi, thanks so much for you quick responses. I will definitely stop putting the thread around the pin and just come straight out the bottom of the tension discs - that's really disappointing that what looks like a really helpful video, is actually wrong - a lesson learnt for me. Regarding the spring, so when the thread pops past the bent part of the thread controller disc, sort of sitting outside it (which I have tried to show in the last photo but it is not easy to see) and then rests against the spring - what stops it from jumping out again while you sew? I seem to have so much extra thread at the point when the needle is fully up, that nothing can stop the thread from just kind of falling off the thread controller. 

[Uwe]

The thread will be somewhat loose at some point during the stitch cycle, but it should not pop out of the check spring. Here's how I thread the check spring:

 

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Uwe

[dikman]

Uwe, you've done it again! Much clearer than my attempt to describe it.

[Carrie88]

Thanks so much for the video, Uwe. It was very helpful and seems to have solved my tension problem plus my thread has stopped breaking. I think I was also using a needle that was too small for the thread - and it was kind of piercing the thread and tangling up. I have read all of the threads (no pun intended  ) on this forum and so I have tried to match a few different thread sizes to needles sizes, for sewing lighter leather for bags etc. The thread sizes are so confusing, between the tex, the ticket and whatever other number they have. And then here in Australia, the numbers seem different again. I've just played around for a few hours and managed to sew a few things - but I can see it really takes practice and experience to create nice work with these machines. Now I just have to get the beast under my control - it's so powerful and just takes off if I put my foot down too hard. This is a wonderful forum for beginners, thanks to all of you for your help. Carrie. 

[mikesc]

Needle sizes and threads guide..
http://tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html
For speed control ..get a servo motor and a speed reducer..
for threads here about them copy and paste this next line into any search engine.
site:leatherworker.net servo motor speed reducer

Btw..Here is a link about thread that should keep you busy reading
http://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=TTE&Category_Code=polyester-thread-information

Edited June 25, 2017 by mikesc

[leecopp]

I am surprised that the modern Seiko manual and older consew manual do not go into details about threading. 

Lee

[dikman]

As Mike said, a servo is an excellent investment to "tame the beast". As for thread sizes, yep, it made my brains hurt for quite a while trying to come to grips with it! Here in Oz we generally use the Metric designations, so #69 (commonly used designation in the US) is M40, #138 is M20. These are probably the two most commonly used sizes of thread, from there you start getting into the heavy stuff (which is not easy to find here in Oz). What do you intend making/sewing?

[Carrie88]

Is installing a servo motor something that a non-sewing machine mechanic can do? or is that not recommended? I would really like to do so but I'm worried it could be too expensive. The thought of the machine stitching slowly is a dream!

I've been using Tkt 20 (#138) - so this is also M20? that's good to know, I got pretty confused about that looking at thread for sale online in Aus. But I really wanted to use lighter thread for more inconspicuous topstitching. The lowest I've been able to go is Tkt 40 (#69) but I really wanted to use Tkt 20 (#46). I have found that my machine doesn't like any needle smaller than 120/19. The 14 and 16 size needles just seem to pierce the thread or the stitching really puckers up and then snaps. As soon as i put the bigger needle back in, it's happy again and starts stitching normally. 

I'm sewing quite light leather, making bags, kind of like pencil cases or zip up pouches for laptops etc. So the leather is no heavier than what would be used for a leather jacket - but it becomes double on the seams, or sometimes four thicknesses if I've added a little tab or something decorative. But I am also making little coin pouches using sheepskin garment leather which is very thin, but there is also a fabric lining and zip - so it's more than my home Janome could handle. So I topstitch along the zip on both sides and while the #138 or #69 looks nice on the bigger pouches, it doesn't look so nice on the smaller ones which is why I was trying to go down to thinner threads. 

Sorry I just realised I made a mistake, I meant to say I want to go down to Tkt 60 (#46) these codes are killing me!

[dikman]

Tkt 20 is close enough to M20 that any difference isn't worth worrying about.

Servos usually just use the existing motor mounting holes, and depending on the type may have a separate control box or it may be incorporated in the motor housing. You would probably need a different length drive belt, most likely shorter. If you're not confidant about fitting it if you know someone who is an electrician/technician and owes you a favour () they shouldn't have any problems fitting one, it's not that complicated.

That machine basically has similar performance to most of mine and they handle #69 and #138 with no adjustments needed, but if you're going to lighter weight thread it may need the timing re-adjusted. The manual says it can handle down to size 12 needles so I would think it should be able to handle that smaller thread, but it may need the timing, tension and checkspring adjusted slightly? Don't know for sure as I haven't tried lighter thread but I'm sure others who are more experienced will chime in. The fact it's working with the other thread/needle is good, as it means there's not much wrong.

[Carrie88]

Adjusting the timing sounds like a lot of work just to change threads. Perhaps I'll just stick with the thicker ones. I'm also a bit confused about needles - my manual says to use 135x17 which I am, but I have seen users of this forum saying that 135x16 are for leather work? should I be using these instead?

Also, I'm wondering if my tension discs are just not working properly - the tension is so tight, no matter how far out I wind the tension nut, it can be out as far as possible without falling off - and the thread is still so hard to pull through. I've see these whole tension assembly's for sale - perhaps I should just replace it. 

[dikman]

135/16 and 135/17 are virtually the same. My Pfaff is supposed to use 135/16 but I use 135/17 'cos that's what most of my other machines use. Dismantle the tension assembly and have a look at the inside of the pressure discs, sometimes they can get grooves in them. One of mine was like that, I smoothed and polished the discs with some very fine wet and dry paper and swapped the discs front to back (which changed the position of the grooves so that they didn't line up with the thread path). And yes, you can buy the tension assembly's pretty easily, but check out the one you have first and make sure it looks ok.

[Northmount]

Needle system size 135/16 is a leather point, 135/17 is a conical point.  Both are the same size/length.  Leather point doesn't blow out the back of the leather as badly as a conical point.  This version of leather point is like a chisel.

Anyone that is somewhat mechanically inclined should be able to help you switch motors.  Get a servo with the smallest pulley you can so the machine can run slower.

Tom

 

[LumpenDoodle2]

Hardest part of fitting a servo motor, is supporting the old clutch moter as you undo the bolts.   They are heavy beggers, so either get someone to take the weight, or use a car scissor or bottle jack.    

What I have done in the past, is pop a bit wood on top of the jack, between it and the motor.   You will probibly have to set the jack on a couple of bricks/wooden block/stool, to get the height.   Undo the bolts, while supporting motor on the jack to keep it stable.   Gently wind down jack with motor on it, then get passing strong person to remove it for you, or do it yourself.

Fitting the servo motor is easy.   Bolt on servo motor, screw on servo control box, fit belt, adjust tension, and off you go.   Lots of youtube vids on it, if you need them.

I agree about the pulley, get the smallest you can.   In the meantime, to control your clutch motor a bit better, pop a tennis ball under the pedal, or use a bungee cord.   The idea is to give a bit resistance to the pedal when you press it, and reduce the on/off feeling clutch motors can have.

[NCArcher]

Where in Sydney are you Carrie?

I have a 226R and I have fitted a servo to it (and i'm an electricain) . If you decide to go that way I would be happy to give you a hand.

 

[dikman]

That's a very generous offer, NC. Just goes to show, the nicest people use this forum......

Tom, thanks for enlightening me about the needle size (without calling me stoopid ). I was pretty sure that the ones I had were virtually identical, I'll have to have a closer look. Whilst I sort of understand the sizing numbers, I'm obviously still confused about system numbers and the point shapes/styles.  

[leecopp]

For clarification .. found a decent copy of the 111w155 manual which details threading . I dont remember the source , but the manual had a 1950 copyright.

 

 

[Carrie88]

Thanks leecopp - I also have a copy of that manual which I downloaded from the web - it's definitely more helpful than the consew manual. I also have a copy of the parts manual which I downloaded from South Star Supply online which has been very helpful when dismantling and reassembling for cleaning etc. When I bought the machine many of the parts were not attached, there was just a big bag of random screws and rods and things.

NCArcher - that is indeed a very kind offer. I live near the airport. I am not financially ready to invest in a servo motor yet but will definitely be in touch for advice when I do. In the meantime I have adjusted the brackets that attach the foot pedal, and I can control the machine fairly well. I have found this is also easier when the room is warmer (its winter in Aus currently). It seems a bit smoother rather than jarring fast and slow.

I have also found a bunch of extra parts which I will post a photo of. I think they are additional feet with an edge guide, perhaps for top stitching? as well as a flat plate which I have no idea of how to attach, plus a roller guide. I'm hoping that if I learn how to use these, I can really start to sew in straight lines!

[Carrie88]

Thanks leecopp - I also have a copy of that manual which I downloaded from the web - it's definitely more helpful than the consew manual. I also have a copy of the parts manual which I downloaded from South Star Supply online which has been very helpful when dismantling and reassembling for cleaning etc. When I bought the machine many of the parts were not attached, there was just a big bag of random screws and rods and things.

NCArcher - that is indeed a very kind offer. I live near the airport. I am not financially ready to invest in a servo motor yet but will definitely be in touch for advice when I do. In the meantime I have adjusted the brackets that attach the foot pedal, and I can control the machine fairly well. I have found this is also easier when the room is warmer (its winter in Aus currently). It seems a bit smoother rather than jarring fast and slow.

I have also found a bunch of extra parts which I will post a photo of. I think they are additional feet with an edge guide, perhaps for top stitching? as well as a flat plate which I have no idea of how to attach, plus a roller guide. I'm hoping that if I learn how to use these, I can really start to sew in straight lines!

Please don't laugh - but is this what this flat piece is for?

 

[Carrie88]

[Carrie88]

So I have no idea what the big screw is for or even if it goes with the machine, I also can't work our where to put the weird hook with the slotted end but I'm pretty sure the net thing is a roller foot or edge guide of some type? In the next photo these seem to be feet for working with big edges, like the beading on car seats or something?

Appreciate any tips here. I read the other thread on home made edge guides, but they didn't really help me with the above attachments. Thanks. 

[dikman]

Yep, first one is a basic edge guide. Only problem with attaching it to that plate is you have to make sure that plate can't slip back, otherwise the edge guide will move.

I'm no expert on feet, I'll leave that to others.The hook thingy fits into a hole along the back edge of the bed and is a pivot for tilting the machine back.

You can see the round bit screwed to the table that it fits in to. This is an older style of tilt.

The roller wheel is a roller feed, used instead of a presser foot. Not a lot of use on a walking foot machine!

Edited July 1, 2017 by dikman

[Carrie88]

An update to this thread for any newcomers with an old Consew that may have similar problems and be reading this right now. Despite the guidance provided in the machines manual (and the Singer manual which is virtually the same) my machine in particular does not really like it when you mess around with thread sizes and needle gauges. It is very happy at the moment sewing with Tkt 60 (v46, T45) thread and a 14/90 needle. Also the instruction manual says to put the needle in the wrong way around, it could just be the way I was reading it, but the scoop out section near the eye of the needle needs to face TOWARDS the bobbin  housing. 

If I put Tkt 30 (V92, T90) and a 19/120 needle, the machine will sew for a while but then gets very unhappy again and the thread tangles. Same happens with Tkt 40 (V69, T70) and a 16/100 needle. I put the smaller and needle and thread back in and it's happy again. Some of these combinations seem to have the thread a bit fat for the needle, like there is some friction so by going up a needle size it does make a difference, but I think I still have some tension issues on my machine. So this is probably just an idiosyncrasy of my particular machine or maybe I don't know quite enough about how to adjust it properly yet. I was hoping to use bigger thread to mimic the look of hand stitching on thicker leather, but I am happy for now with the look of the ticket 30 thread. 

Also the addition of the servo motor really was a game changer (thanks to the advice of users on this forum for guiding me through that!). 

I have also had the machine serviced by a professional since then and there were a few issues with it. I had the setting of the servo motor too slow, he adjusted it up to 20 and that made a big difference. Also the check spring part featured in the video above by Uwe, the serviceman actually bent the already bent part of this in further as it was not preventing the thread from jumping out during sewing. Note - this was a brand new part purchased from SouthStar (http://southstarsupply.com ) who I totally recommend if you need Consew parts. There was nothing wrong with the part as such, but the modification made a difference on my machine. 

Happy sewing! and don't give up, it takes perserverence!

ps. I did also end up figuring out what all of the attachments, edge guides etc do.