Hide House issues

[Ian]

Does anyone have any connections with the owners of The Hide House?

I have been battling a problem with them for almost a month without resolution.

I ordered 2 hides from their sales flyer. They told me the flyer was out of date (although they still advertise those prices on the web site)

They offered to give me a reduction in the catalog price.

When the order arrived they had substituted a low grade leather (Nassa - don't ever order it!)for my order.

I called to say I was returning the hides - they said "no problem"

Shipped the hides on Dec 12 - according to FedEx, they signed for it on Dec 18.

I have called them 3 times to find out about my refund and was told alternately, that - they have no record of having received it - "it must by lying around the warehouse unopened", and that my refund would be issued that same day.

I pay with a debit card, so I can see transactions instantly, and no refund yet (although when I place orders, the money is out of my account within minutes)

I am out almost $400 plus almost $50 shipping (it cost me $28 to ship it back to them)

I have no idea how to proceed with this since it's an out of state company. How does one go about pursuing a company that says they will resolve issues every time you call, and then does nothing? I am at my wits end with these people.

PS In addition to their 'Nassa' product, don't order the 'Explore' - it has so many flaws, it's unusable.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Ian

[Ian]

Not to mention that this was for an order that, as I explained when I ordered the leather , was for a fairly rush order. How can I make promises to a customer when I can rely on the supplier?

[Ian]

Well, the issue appears to be resolved (after my sixth call + email). Although according to my bank, the refund was made this morning and not on Monday as they claimed.

I only use about 60-70 sides a year, which is small potatoes for The Hide House, so deciding not to order from them again will have little impact - but it makes me feel good to cross them off my list of suppliers.

Anyway, I'm happy to have my money back.

[rdb]

I'm glad you got the cash back...too bad the customer was left to hang.

I guess, in the back of my mind, I'll have your experience to draw on, when I think of Hide House.

Unfortunately, this seems to be occurring with several supply houses. Whether it's the economy, or just foolishness, I'm starting to get PO'd.

One thing I make sure, when I contact a supplier, is to mention this Forum. You would be surprised to see how few actually know we exist...even when some of their best customers post here. This Forum is an Historic part of Modern LeatherWork, it's influence yet to be understood, but it will be, I'm sure. A few suppliers, and toolmakers understand, but not enough. There are no real Unions for us, but as a group, were we to stick together, and promote our little "group", it can only help us. Maybe some suppliers will upgrade their service. They want our money, we should get a little something back.

[Johanna]

Maybe someone ought to email Hide House a link to this thread?

~J

[Ian]

It's not that their people aren't as friendly as can be - it's the follow-through that was dismal. I'm still not convinced that they didn't send me the inferior substitute, thinking I wouldn't know the difference. Heck I was in the business of selling leather garments for quite some time, so I know quite a bit about garment leather tanning and finishes.

Anyway, it's too bad, because they have an awesome selection of colors you can't find anywhere else. Just a few weeks ago I was singing their praises. Finding good sources is like discovering gold.

[rdb]

I notified them...we'll see if there is a response.

[Art]

Hi Ian,

It doesn't take long for sacks of potatoes to turn into a truckload.

I don't pretend to know the folks at Hide House. Never ordered from them. This economy has got consumer confidence in the tank, and in that instance, s__t definitely rolls UP HILL. Sometimes you have to trim the payroll to stay alive and if the owners or bosses don't pick up the slack, then you get poor customer service. Generally, customers don't stand for poor customer service (your case in point). In the cyclical economy, the best time to start or restart a business is at the low point of the business cycle. Inventory prices from suppliers are low; there may be an abundance of labor at bargain prices; and any number of other advantages for the startup. So now is the logical time for employees or family members who have been thinking about it and have some cash to leave established businesses and start their own, this is another drain (usually of the better or more motivated talent) on established businesses. Now the established owners are working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, going to McDonalds for breakfast, and not having lunch. You can see where this is going.

I guess what I am saying is to cut the supplier some slack, but establish minimum levels of service you will accept, and reinforce those levels every time you order. I always call in my orders and do the reinforcement thing, you can't do that with a computer, and buying leather over the web is nutz. While unpacking an order recently, I found on the packing list under the calf I had ordered there was a computer written note "Customer will only accept #1 skins". So I had definitely made an impression on the gal taking the order, and the hides were primo.

Lastly, don't expect to get the cleanest, most beautiful, US produced hides at sale prices, seldom happens. If the seller is offering something at really good prices, then they bought it for really great prices, and nobody buys really great leather cheap. If you are getting a great price, inquire about how much of the hide is usable and what size clear pieces you can get out of it.

If you talk with your suppliers personally, they will know what you expect.

Art

Well, the issue appears to be resolved (after my sixth call + email). Although according to my bank, the refund was made this morning and not on Monday as they claimed.

I only use about 60-70 sides a year, which is small potatoes for The Hide House, so deciding not to order from them again will have little impact - but it makes me feel good to cross them off my list of suppliers.

Anyway, I'm happy to have my money back.

[Ian]

Art, I believe it was you who said you had ordered from Waterhouse. I have some samples coming from them. I think you said you had purchased some thinner hides (maybe the 2 1/2oz?) Were the hides you received clean? Was it a soft, garment feel? Smooth grained or milled finish?

BTW, Hide House appears to be a big operation judging by the pictures of their 2 warehouses and group shots of the employees in their catalog. I had also wanted to order some buckles they had, but was told they were out, because they had just sold 5,000 to a single customer. So, i'm guessing they don't exactly cater to the small operator.

Hopefully Waterhouse will work out and I'll be able to post a glowing review of the leather I order. Their prices are also considerably lower than HH, so we'll see.

I liked your encouraging comments about starting new ventures in a down economy. It might be a glimmer of hope for us little guys.

[rdb]

I've got some Chestnut bridle leather from Waterhouse. They were beautiful pieces. Peter actually saved my butt with his extra service....

I don't know about the garment leathers though

[bruce johnson]

I am not a big time customer of HideHouse, but order from time to time. I don't think I have ever ordered more than a side or two until 2 days ago I ordered 3. I don't feel like small fish when I have dealt with HideHouse on those small quantities. Everything I have ordered has gone out that day lik e they say, and I have it the next. When I call they tell me that they have what I need in stock. Some of the guys I know have never complained of bad service, but I can attest that it can happen with anyone. One of the most popular referred to sellers here has lost my order, then a month later forgot to fill my order on the next run of product, and delayed it even longer. It happens.

Not to apologize for any suppliers, but often this time of year they tend to be more out of stock. If they are paying inventory taxes at year end, most will try to have the stock pared down. I normally ask them about availability and quality left when I order. Some of them have sorted past some of the skins all year they have left, and don't replace until after the first. Still no excuse to substitute something without letting you know.

[stelmackr]

...Everything I have ordered has gone out that day like they say, and I have it the next. When I call they tell me that they have what I need in stock. Some of the guys I know have never complained of bad service, but I can attest that it can happen with anyone....

This recent weather has delayed some of my leather deliveries, but those from Hide House were a little late, but exactly what I needed. As Bruce and others say -- any company can meet expectations, but fail at rare times.

Bob Stelmack

[greg gomersall]

I don't build alot of chaps but for the ones I do, I get my hides from the Hide House and always found them to maybe be more expensive than others but thier inventory was extensive and when I showed color swatches to the client the hide house would have the leather in stock. That consistantcy is worth the extra money and their service to me has always been good. Unfortuately sometimes people fall thru the cracks and it does leave a bad taste in your mouth when it happens to you. Greg

[Tina]

I must say that my experience as a very small business for HideHuse is Very nice. I always get good quallity (=what I ordered) and they show up really quickly even if they're sent from CA to MI.

I absolutly love their chap sides (3-31/2 oz) and the superb Plonge leather which I use for anything from corsets to lining when I want something beautiful yet duarble..

[Ian]

I must say that my experience as a very small business for HideHuse is Very nice. I always get good quallity (=what I ordered) and they show up really quickly even if they're sent from CA to MI.

I absolutly love their chap sides (3-31/2 oz) and the superb Plonge leather which I use for anything from corsets to lining when I want something beautiful yet duarble..

Tina, those weren't the issues I was dealing with. I have ordered leather that was some of the nicest I've ever bought (although expensive) from HH. The shipping was very fast and they sent me all the samples I asked for, and the salespeople were polite and helpful.

The issue was the fact that they substituted a leather they describe in the catalog as 'value priced' for the high end leather I ordered, even after I explained the need for a very high end look and feel for what I am doing. Now that I find myself taking orders for motorcycle apparel, I have to produce a product that will stand out from the much cheaper imported products I am competing with.

Further, coming close to denying that they had recieved my return despite the Fed Ex tracking showing that they signed for it. After all, how do I prove what was in the box I shipped when they supposedly couldn't find the box?

Also, since I am not a wealthy person, I needed the refund to re-order from another source and I had to explain this whole mess to the customer who was waiting. I recieved the refund 3 weeks after they received the returned merchandise.

Then at my final call, they magically had the letter and invoice I had included with the return on the desk in front of them.

If it was simply a matter of a warehouse person accidentaly shipping the wrong stuff, I can understand that. I think of all my suppliers, Ohio Travel Bag is the only one that has never made an error in my order, and when I had my store open, I placed various orders from different suppliers 3-4 times a week. I am no stranger to returning product that was unsatisfactory.

No, that they have the most extensive catalog of any supplier is not the issue at all.

[TomBanwell]

I have dealt with the Hide House for over 20 years, when Rob the owner was just starting out. I have never had a problem with them. I suppose any company can have problems from time to time. I think they are a very honest business and if you keep communicating it will get straightened out. Please don't write them off as a bad apple, as I just don't believe that they would screw anyone over.

[kfiretwo]

has any one ever used saddle grade shearing from hide house

[TwinOaks]

Ian,

From what I've read in the other's posts, as well as yours, this seems to be a singularly bad experience. I completely understand having your money tied up, and the frustration it can cause. As Bruce pointed out, they may be having a labor issue. If cutting the labor force was a neccesary decision, it's possible that some of the good help walked, and they're stuck with some minimum wage kids working after school, who have NO experience with which leather is which. I say fire off a letter (not an email) to the head honchos at HH, and reference this thread. You've done a pretty good job explaining what the problem was/is and why it's costing them your business, and see what they say. Again, write a letter, not an email, because the letter says "I'm ticked off enough to sit down and write this, expecting that it will be in your hands, and it's important enough that it needs to be seen by you, not somebody doing mass or automatic replies with the email accounts." 'Word of mouth' can be a great advertising method. When it's negative, it can be disasterous, and businesses know this. Imagine a new member reading only the first few posts of this thread- first impression is made. Do you think they'll even risk an order from HH? Now multiply that by several thousand hits per day (not including all of our guests). Do you think the suppliers would risk generating a bad reputation?

Give them a chance to do right by you. We've seen several instances on this board where a supplier's head honcho was made aware of a problem and things were put right. We've also seen the other side of it where there's nothing but praise for the company, and how much that has positively effected that company (Artisan to be specific).

We may not be organized as a Union, but as members of this online community we have a LOT of power as consumers. If HH's service has truly went the way of the Dodo, then others will have negative comments about it too. Lastly, thank you for sharing your experience- it let's us know where there might be some potential problems.

M

Edited January 9, 2009 by TwinOaks

[Ian]

Ian,

From what I've read in the other's posts, as well as yours, this seems to be a singularly bad experience. M

Thanks for the advice folks, I am pretty much over the situation. I think that (partly) it came at a time when I had several other issues relating to bad service from other entities, and other financial issues. It was a last straw situation. Or, maybe I was just looking for one person to say "we apologise for the screw-up".

I think you're right though. When you're dealing with many companies, the higher ups have no idea of ongoing issues, since they are dealt with by whoever is picking up the phone or monitoring emails.

Anyway, the refund made it into my checking account this morning, so I'm going to consider the issue over, and move on. Of course, it still leaves me trying to locate a suppier of high quality naked garment leather at a realistic price, but I'm crossing my fingers for Waterhouse Leather.

[mulefool]

I had an interesting experience on my first order with them a few years ago. Somebody accidently added an extra zero to my credit card invoice. When I opened up my one side of leather and looked at the bill it was $800.00!!!!!! They fixed the problem immediately, but what a jaw dropper.

One thing I try to do when ordering from a company is establish kind of a relationship with one of the sales people there. I try to always talk to the same person, I try to make sure they understand my quality requirements. By always dealing with the same person I feel they will give me better service and feel more accountable for that, because I will come right back to them if there is a problem and not get shuffled around to different people. Another thing I do is when a person at a particular company gives me really good service, and oftentimes that means they have done a good job of fixing a problem, I will write a letter to management praising them. I think that is the right thing to do, but the upside for me is that employees remember me for that and I feel it encourages them to give me even better service.

Glad you got your issue resolved. Chris

[ntex2000]

It's doubtful that Hide House will ever get my business. Delaying a refund after receiving a return is unforgivable.

A word of advice to everyone who uses debit cards to make online purchases....DON'T! As a former bank compliance officer...former being up until the week before Christmas 2008 when 200 of us were laid off...I can advise you that federal consumer protection laws and regulations provide far superior protection for electronic payments made by credit cards than they do for debit cards. Afterall, regardless of how your complete a debit card transaction, it is in effect the equivalent of cash. If you had used a credit card for the Hide House purchase, the day following the day that they failed to post your promised refund would have been the day I would have contacted the credit card issuer to dispute the transaction. The funds would have been credited back to my account and the merchant would have been issued a chargeback. No hassels having to listen to empty promises or stress waiting for your checking account balance to be back to where it should be.

However, if you are one of those people, like me, who doesn't like adding to their credit card balance, then you can always log on to your credit card web site and make a concurrent payment to your credit card account that equals your online purchase amount, or you can always log on to online banking to sending an immediate payment to your credit card equal to the purchase price. I do this all the time, and am able to max out my gm points each year while keeping your credit card constantly paid in full.

[bruce johnson]

Sorry about the bad experience. I have had it happen from suppliers too. It looks like a tough business to be in, and deal with sources from all over the world and customers on the other. I am glad these independents are giving us a choice "B".

Just to add a bit to my Hide House experience. Last week I took the morning and drove over and visited them in Napa. I had been a casual customer before. Roger had been my rep, and I had always got good service for my orders. I had recently ordered 3 sides, and it was some of the biggest cleanest sides I had got in a while. One reason for the visit was to see if they all were that good, or my order got "cherry picked". They mostly all were that good.

The warehouse is pretty big and well laid out. Neatly organized and looked like a fair amount of labor pulling and filling orders. I had a few pieces I needed and Roger pulled them, then turned me loose to wander the aisles. He came back every so often, and the other workers would ask if we wanted anything pulled to look at. Just a very enjoyable experience, and I came away with more appreciation for what they have available. It also gave me a face to face experience.

While not everyone has the luxury of living a couple hours drive from someplace like this, I'd recommend a visit to any suppliers you can. I also made a trip down to Buellton and visited Siegels a while back, another enjoyable trip and similar setup. Both of these are located in different "wine country" areas and could be destination get-aways too.

ntex,

Thanks for the heads up on the debit card deal. Something I hadn't considered before, and I appreciate it.

[BevJones]

has any one ever used saddle grade shearing from hide house

I ordered a sample from HH and it seems nice. I can tell you that I have gotten real nice saddle barks from Lazy M. Their number is 970-674-8899

[Tkleather1]

Man I know that anny bussiness can screw up but jeez lets beat the dead horse just a little longer. Come on LET IT GO, I order all of my chap hides from them. granted I am a small fish to them but I still get the best service and fantastic hides. I have oredered everywhere from one to 10 hides at a time and always get the same great service. So to all of you that listen to the last word.

I GIVE THE HIDE HOUSE THE BEST POSSIBLE REVIEW