Machine for mostly canvas, some heavier stuff

[mwpdx86]

Alright, so I know this is a leather sewing forum, but every time I google a potential new sewing machine model number, I end up here, so I figured it'd be a good place to ask.

 

I've been sewing for a little bit on a singer 'heavy duty', I think I'm sort of getting to the limits of what the machine is capible of (in terms of material thickness/etc, not sewing skill or whatever, obviously). I'm going to be using mostly canvas (15-24oz) but also leather and other heavy materials to makes bags/wallets/etc. I think 99% of what I'm doing will only be a couple layers of medium-heavy canvas with the occasional seam or piece of heavier material. It would be nice if it could also handle thinner material for bag linings/etc but it seems like most of them don't have that broad of a range.

 

It seems like the Consew 206rb-5 is a pretty popular option, especially for the heavier end of what I'd like to do. I'm also looking at the sort of in between walking foot machines like the Juki 1181 and the Consew 205rb-1. I understand these are only top and bottom feed machines and don't have the needle feed that the 206 has but thought maybe they'd do better with thinner stuff and ok with thicker stuff? I saw that both of these machines have the automatic oil pump, which you should only use if you're sewing pretty fast? I think I'd be going pretty slowly most of the time, not because of material thickness or anything, just lack of sewing skill. Would it work to unthread the machine and run it at full speed for a bit before/after use or should it be pretty much all the time?

 

Any suggestions or other machines I should look at would be a huge help, thanks!!

[dikman]

If you can only have one machine then a cylinder arm walking foot would be nice (the ubiquitous Pfaff 335 or clones comes to mind), but the 206RB-5 should suit nicely, particularly if you can fit a servo motor (it will give better slow speed control and be much easier to learn on than a clutch motor). As for the oiling, if you're going to be using it slowly then learn how to manually oil the various parts. It will also help you to understand the machine better.

Just curious, what is the "Singer heavy duty" that you have?

Edited August 17, 2017 by dikman

[Tejas]

3 hours ago, mwpdx86 said:

I think 99% of what I'm doing will only be a couple layers of medium-heavy canvas with the occasional seam or piece of heavier material.

A compound walking-foot machine might be more essential than you have experienced so far. I sew mostly marine canvas and when sewing canvas, the number of layers can mount up quickly. Simply sewing a double-fold hem over a semi-flat felled seam is nine layers. Sewing a double-fold hem over a flat felled seam is 12 layers. Doulble-hems at a corner also result in nine-layers but can be mitigated to fewer layers by mitering the corner. Add some webbing, and layers and thickness can increase quickly.

Needle-feed also helps mitigate the tendency of lower-layers of material to feed faster than upper-layers with drop-feed machines.

[mwpdx86]

21 hours ago, dikman said:

If you can only have one machine then a cylinder arm walking foot would be nice (the ubiquitous Pfaff 335 or clones comes to mind), but the 206RB-5 should suit nicely, particularly if you can fit a servo motor (it will give better slow speed control and be much easier to learn on than a clutch motor). As for the oiling, if you're going to be using it slowly then learn how to manually oil the various parts. It will also help you to understand the machine better.

Just curious, what is the "Singer heavy duty" that you have?

Yeah, I was kind of leaning towards the 206, but wasn't sure if it was overkill for my purposes. Any machine I get would for sure have a servo motor before I'd be able to use it, judging by the videos on youtube. 

The cylinder arm machines look like they'd be great for a lot of what I want to do, but it seems like they're usually quite a bit more expensive. I've found an online dealer who has the top/bottom feed machines for just over 1000 and the 206 for just over 1300, w/ servo motor and shipping.  It seems like the cylinder arm ones usually start at about 2000.

[dikman]

I reckon that a flatbed should let you do pretty well all that you want. As for overkill, it's always better to get a machine that is a bit more than what you think you'll need, within reason.

[Wizcrafts]

29 minutes ago, mwpdx86 said:

Yeah, I was kind of leaning towards the 206, but wasn't sure if it was overkill for my purposes. Any machine I get would for sure have a servo motor before I'd be able to use it, judging by the videos on youtube. 

The cylinder arm machines look like they'd be great for a lot of what I want to do, but it seems like they're usually quite a bit more expensive. I've found an online dealer who has the top/bottom feed machines for just over 1000 and the 206 for just over 1300, w/ servo motor and shipping.  It seems like the cylinder arm ones usually start at about 2000.

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, and presumably all other Consew dealers, sell a less expensive flat bed triple feed machine, labeled: Consew P1206RB. It has a forced feed oil pump system, which is a plus. But, it lacks the safety clutch mechanism the the 206 models have. It lists at just under a grand, US.

[brmax]

The canvas you mention is pretty heavy duty. If your folding it much in your bag project you might want a bit more than the 1181 in my opinion. 

I seen early you mention bag and wallet projects. So honestly if this is the project list a standard size cylinder arm is best. These can be had with a smaller table that is mounted to the cylinder, so making a flat bed yet again removeable for bag work. 

Lets face it we all will try to get anything done if need to with what we have. So i would look at the offerings in a 138 size thread and lower cylinder arm machine. If you think about it thread color can totally do a good job as a eye catcher. 

Good day there

Floyd

[dikman]

That P1206RB that Wiz mentioned looks pretty good for the money, handles up to #207 thread and even includes a servo!

[mwpdx86]

On 8/17/2017 at 7:18 PM, Wizcrafts said:

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, and presumably all other Consew dealers, sell a less expensive flat bed triple feed machine, labeled: Consew P1206RB. It has a forced feed oil pump system, which is a plus. But, it lacks the safety clutch mechanism the the 206 models have. It lists at just under a grand, US.

The p1206rb is another one I was looking at.  I wasn't sure about the safety clutch.  I don't know how likely it is that I'll throw out the timing (or trip the safety clutch on a machine that has one) with what I'm doing.  Does that normally just happen when you try to sew something too heavy or when the needle flexes and hits the plate (that's been happening a lot on my home machine)??  Are there other important differences between the 206rb5 and the p1206rb?  The price difference doesn't seem too important if the 206rb is significantly better for some reason. 

Edited August 19, 2017 by mwpdx86

[mwpdx86]

On 8/16/2017 at 9:12 PM, dikman said:

 

Just curious, what is the "Singer heavy duty" that you have?

It's the 4452/4432/whatever the Joann's one is.  It's basically a home machine that maybe goes a bit faster?  I'm assuming it's just geared a bit faster (and thus less torquey) but doesn't actually have a more powerful motor or anything, which I guess is sort of the opposite of what I want at the moment.  At the time, I mostly just wanted an upgrade from the "it's-good-because-it's-metal" goodwill specials I kept buying. 

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, mwpdx86 said:

The p1206rb is another one I was looking at.  I wasn't sure about the safety clutch.  I don't know how likely it is that I'll throw out the timing (or trip the safety clutch on a machine that has one) with what I'm doing.  Does that normally just happen when you try to sew something too heavy or when the needle flexes and hits the plate (that's been happening a lot on my home machine)??  Are there other important differences between the 206rb5 and the p1206rb?  The price difference doesn't seem too important if the 206rb is significantly better for some reason. 

FWIIW:

I have a room full of industrial sewing machines and at this moment, not one has a safety clutch. The only time I jam the top thread in the bobbin case or shuttle race is when I don't hold back the starting threads with enough tension. This usually only happens when I am starting to sew a large patch onto the back of a vest and can't quite get enough thread out of the armhole or bottom when I start. But, the jam is obvious and I stop very quickly and clear it with snippers and/or tweezers, then move along. I have never thrown out my timing from a thread jam and I have two old Singer walking foot machines that are still sewing every day.

[dikman]

I've snapped more than a couple of needles through deflecting and hitting the needle plate, and a couple because the timing was out and they caught down in the bobbin/shuttle area (), haven't tripped a safety clutch yet.

Looks like the 1206 can handle slightly heavier thread. One advantage of buying the 1206 is that you'll be getting a new machine, set up properly to start with.

[Colt W Knight]

• I used the Safety Clutch on my Consew 206 once ( stupid mistake on my part right after I bought the machine). My consew 206 is a beast, and it is a canvas sewing machine. Plus you have readily available attachments like binders that would come in handy on a bag machine.
•  

[Red Cent]

http://www.sailrite.com/Sewing-Machines/Portable-Heavy-Duty-Sewing-Machines/Ultrafeed-LSZ-1-Sewing-Machine

 

and it will do the zig zag

[mwpdx86]

Done! Pulled the trigger on a Consew P1206rb that should be arriving today.  It's both a huge relief (I've been agonizing over this decision for a number of months now) and a bit terrifying as I'm not sure what to expect from a machine like this.  At least they seem to have pretty good resale value on craigslist, I guess. 

[dikman]

I reckon you've made the right decision, as I said it looks like a nice machine. Let us know how you go with it as it will be useful info for anyone else considering buying one.

[Wizcrafts]

13 hours ago, mwpdx86 said:

Done! Pulled the trigger on a Consew P1206rb that should be arriving today.  It's both a huge relief (I've been agonizing over this decision for a number of months now) and a bit terrifying as I'm not sure what to expect from a machine like this.  At least they seem to have pretty good resale value on craigslist, I guess. 

Good choice. Now remember to always pull back the starting threads for a few stitches as you begin a stitch line. If you start by reversing, hold the starting threads until you cross back over them in forward.

[mwpdx86]

This thing is a monster! Finally got it set up and sewing and the claims of "sews anything it can fit under the foot" are pretty accurate, as far as I can tell.  It definitely takes a bit of getting used to but I love the way it just chomps right through stuff that would throw my other machine into a panic attack.  I'm still fine tuning (maybe?) the oil output to the hook, I think.  It keeps getting oil on/around the needle holes, especially noticeable on leather/etc.  I can't really find any detailed information about this, just briefly mentioned in some videos an the manual.  

I'm also using the needles it came with which are way too large for the thread I was able to find locally.  It came with 160 size needles, and the only thread I could find locally in small/test amounts was 69/70.  It works *ok* but the stitches seem a bit loose.  I think I'm going to get some 138 or 207 thread in the large spools tomorrow, assuming anywhere is open on labor day.  I'd prefer to get the 207 but it sounds like maybe 207 only works with this machine if you use 138 in the bobbin?  Can't find too much information about this either but hopefully I can get it to work ok with 207 in both the bobbin and the top thread.  We'll see, I guess.  

[Wizcrafts]

You would use #18 needles with #69 thread. Move up to #19 or 20 needles with #92 thread. #23 (160) is for #138 and possibly #207 on top. Your machine is not meant to sew with #207 thread in the bobbin. It is beyond the tensioners design specs and will probably leave the knots laying on the bottom of the leather, if it sews at all with that size thread. It could possibly void the warranty on the machine. Always use System 135x16 leather point needles with leather, or 135x17 round point with vinyl, webbing or cloth.