Singer 45k1 Restoration Decals

[Parfektionisto]

33 minutes ago, jimi said:

I would say they are original as there is nobody at the moment duplicated the detail  on these  acanthus decals. the ones on ebay are too solid looking, no detail. and the stand is not for this machine Al. there is only 2 machines i know of that used this treadle, the 29k and the class 59.

here is the detail i was talking about.

 

 

Thank you Jimi & Mikesc for the images of the machine and decals, the 29k 33 decals is incredible, it's almost like brand new. Looking at the 45k posted by Mikesc and the 29k posted by Jimi, I spotted a difference between the 2 decals typeface? The 29k decal typeface is with depth, but the 45k typeface is flat, am I right or is it because the 45k decal is worn out? 

Tony

[jimi]

Yes tony, the 45k is worn out. i am sure it was just like the 29k above when new.

[mikesc]

Agree with jimi, the floral decorations on the 45K have the shading ( known as "halftone", like the way Black and white newspaper photos were printed ), so the lettering would have had it too, it is either worn out , or the angle that the photos are taken from doesn't allow for the "halftone" to be visible on the lettering..If you imagine the way that a decal is made..

 

This is how you make a gold foil decal with linework ( maybe some colour ) and some "shading".

 

From the sewing  machine surface side outwards..

"Size layer" layer of transparent slightly sticky varnish/glue mix to hold onto any foil or "leaf" layer and to hold onto the surface that the decal is being applied to..in the Singer movie the woman wets the surfaces first, which makes me think that this lowest size layer is made with water ( or something dissolved in water ) activated glue or size varnish..Then again it may have been a bowl of "solvent" that she had ( and a more sticky solvent activated substance used in that size layer ? )..exposure to chemicals and dangerous substances and work conditions safety was not a consideration then..You got injured at work, if you could no longer work, you might get a "one off" small payment from the company, if you were lucky..and then you had to fend for yourself.

"Foil" or "leaf" layer..can be beaten "gold leaf" or any metallic "leaf"..Singer movie looks like Gold leaf is used..sheet size corresponds..sheets of gold leaf used to be bigger than they are now..most gold leaf used worldwide now comes from Australian goldmines and is beaten to "leaf" and sold by Chinese companies to world market.

"Size layer"..layer of transparent slightly sticky varnish/glue mix to hold onto any foil or "leaf" layer.

"Line work".. layer of additional colour ( if say  you have a black outline with a red inner line or colour area.. Singer "red eye" domestic machine decals for example..every additional colour requires another additional layer.

Halftone layer...printed in closely spaced black dots of varying sizes ( known as "halftone grid" )  to give 3D relief effect

"Line work" layer...( the drawing layer with the swirls , design outlines or lettering outlines.

Colour tinted clear layer.. if required

Transparent clear layer... that is only lightly attached to the paper, rubbing from the outside of the paper support, or water can allow separation from the paper.

Base layer of paper support,... often similar to grease proof cooking paper, separates from any clear layer easily..

 

Of course to make the decal you actually do that in the reverse order..beginning with the paper layer. and go back up that list..The Transparent clear layer  can be very hard wearing , and may not need any clear coating or varnishing after the decal has been applied..and it can be quite thick..as long as it detaches from the backing paper when burnished.

Very high grade decals used to be made this way..letraset for example..some companies still produce gold foil decals.

I think that the replica decal company at keesew and others just use gold coloured pigments ( screen printed decals ) but you could also use polyester film foil like for hot stamping.Whether there would be a worthwhile market for real foil decals for sewing machines is another matter.

Yes..I have owned specialist printing company that amongst other things did some decals..and also been a signwriter ( brushes and airbrushes etc ) and gilder. still have all the equipment for signwriting , airbrushing, custom painting and gilding.

 

A little research shows that in the USA genuine leaf decoration work is largely around Fire engines, with some companies offering "custom" design services..reading a few sites these "decals" are more of a sticker ( vinyl based but with metal leaf or real gold leaf )..but you might be able to get a quote out of them if you can supply images..quite a few results came up when I searched, having done gold leaf, lettering and design , gilding etc on various surfaces in the "non vinyl" way ( as well as a whole load of vinyl graphics and lettering ) I'd say their examples look reasonable ,you might give these people a call.

http://lionet.paulconwayshields.com/

They seem to be competent..of course without actually seeing "in real life", this is not a customer recommendation..maybe also talk to some people who have custom gold leaf work on their Fire engines.

 

HTH

Edited October 4, 2017 by mikesc

[Evo160K]

LW member Frankqv once mentioned there's a fellow behind his shop that does gold leaf decals for fire trucks.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Evo160K

[jimi]

Thank you mike for that information on the decals. interesting stuff. i would love to try some of these gold leaf type decals one day but i just don´t have it too clear on what those layers are made up of and how you get them together in the right place? and then all of those fine lines... are you sure she is not using a magic rolling pin of some kind?

[dikman]

Thanks Mike,  most interesting. I recall learning something about this process a long time ago, but I'd forgotten most of it (didn't have any practical use for it). I know that some custom motorcycle artists still use gold leaf. The clear coat applied first when building up the transfer makes sense and perhaps explains why no clear coat is applied afterwards (which would simplify the manufacturing process).

Parfektionisto, good luck with trying to replicate the original. Based on what Mike has said, with it being built up of multiple layers, it would be a very labour-intensive process and, I suspect, require quite a bit of skill to get it right - which could = $$$$.

[Parfektionisto]

20 hours ago, mikesc said:

Agree with jimi, the floral decorations on the 45K have the shading ( known as "halftone", like the way Black and white newspaper photos were printed ), so the lettering would have had it too, it is either worn out , or the angle that the photos are taken from doesn't allow for the "halftone" to be visible on the lettering..If you imagine the way that a decal is made..

 

This is how you make a gold foil decal with linework ( maybe some colour ) and some "shading".

 

From the sewing  machine surface side outwards..

"Size layer" layer of transparent slightly sticky varnish/glue mix to hold onto any foil or "leaf" layer and to hold onto the surface that the decal is being applied to..in the Singer movie the woman wets the surfaces first, which makes me think that this lowest size layer is made with water ( or something dissolved in water ) activated glue or size varnish..Then again it may have been a bowl of "solvent" that she had ( and a more sticky solvent activated substance used in that size layer ? )..exposure to chemicals and dangerous substances and work conditions safety was not a consideration then..You got injured at work, if you could no longer work, you might get a "one off" small payment from the company, if you were lucky..and then you had to fend for yourself.

"Foil" or "leaf" layer..can be beaten "gold leaf" or any metallic "leaf"..Singer movie looks like Gold leaf is used..sheet size corresponds..sheets of gold leaf used to be bigger than they are now..most gold leaf used worldwide now comes from Australian goldmines and is beaten to "leaf" and sold by Chinese companies to world market.

"Size layer"..layer of transparent slightly sticky varnish/glue mix to hold onto any foil or "leaf" layer.

"Line work".. layer of additional colour ( if say  you have a black outline with a red inner line or colour area.. Singer "red eye" domestic machine decals for example..every additional colour requires another additional layer.

Halftone layer...printed in closely spaced black dots of varying sizes ( known as "halftone grid" )  to give 3D relief effect

"Line work" layer...( the drawing layer with the swirls , design outlines or lettering outlines.

Colour tinted clear layer.. if required

Transparent clear layer... that is only lightly attached to the paper, rubbing from the outside of the paper support, or water can allow separation from the paper.

Base layer of paper support,... often similar to grease proof cooking paper, separates from any clear layer easily..

 

Of course to make the decal you actually do that in the reverse order..beginning with the paper layer. and go back up that list..The Transparent clear layer  can be very hard wearing , and may not need any clear coating or varnishing after the decal has been applied..and it can be quite thick..as long as it detaches from the backing paper when burnished.

Very high grade decals used to be made this way..letraset for example..some companies still produce gold foil decals.

I think that the replica decal company at keesew and others just use gold coloured pigments ( screen printed decals ) but you could also use polyester film foil like for hot stamping.Whether there would be a worthwhile market for real foil decals for sewing machines is another matter.

Yes..I have owned specialist printing company that amongst other things did some decals..and also been a signwriter ( brushes and airbrushes etc ) and gilder. still have all the equipment for signwriting , airbrushing, custom painting and gilding.

 

A little research shows that in the USA genuine leaf decoration work is largely around Fire engines, with some companies offering "custom" design services..reading a few sites these "decals" are more of a sticker ( vinyl based but with metal leaf or real gold leaf )..but you might be able to get a quote out of them if you can supply images..quite a few results came up when I searched, having done gold leaf, lettering and design , gilding etc on various surfaces in the "non vinyl" way ( as well as a whole load of vinyl graphics and lettering ) I'd say their examples look reasonable ,you might give these people a call.

http://lionet.paulconwayshields.com/

They seem to be competent..of course without actually seeing "in real life", this is not a customer recommendation..maybe also talk to some people who have custom gold leaf work on their Fire engines.

 

HTH

Hi Mikesc, 

This info is really impressive, and very technical as well, like Jimi, I don't quite understand the layers, I guess it's probably easier for someone like u in the printing industry will know and able to visualise the technical process. Although I'm keen to get as close to the original decals as possible( I think there are a few members here, like Al  has the same interest too), but I have never thought of using the gold leaf even though I knew the gold leaf was the original pigment used back then, my main concern was the typeface and the size, but we have come this far in discussing about the "original decals", and with a bit of contribution from everyone here, it makes our goal of reviving the original decals seems closer and positive. You make me curious and thinking about the gold leaf decal now, not sure if there's anyone locally can do that. 

As you mentioned, the gold foil for hot stamping could be another option, but how to transfer that on the decals? 

Keeler's decal is using gold ink which he mentioned in his listing on eBay. I have not seen the effect of Keeler's decal apply on a sewing machine, but I think constabulary and some other members here should have already tried it, so could you guys share with us how's the effect of the gold ink compared to the gold leaf? Similar or very different? 

Tony

[Parfektionisto]

Looking at the decals posted by Jimi for the 29k33, and the original vintage decals from constabulary, both decals are again different, Constabulary's decals typeface has a depth facing upwards, while the decals on the 29k33 has depth facing downwards, moreover the tyeface is slimmer than Constabulary's decals. That means even folker, your decals is not the right one for the 45k, probably is meant for another model, so I might need to modified the one I traced out base on the 29k pic, that's a challenge.

Tony

[Constabulary]

How close do you want to come? If you want a 100% restoration you already started with the wrong paint - I doubt (but who knows for sure) crackle coated 45K ever came with floral decals. So everything you do can only be a compromise or you just restore it "the way you like" and then most likely this machine will not look like the day it left the factory back in 19xx.... Its well possible that my decals were meant for bent wood cases but I do not know. But honestly - I would not spend too much time on decals. And before a machine looks stupid fancy I´d leave out the floral design. But thats just my point.

When a sewing machines comes in a nice original finish (no worn or chipped off paint and decals and the like ) I would not change it but when you have to strip the paint anyway and de-rust parts and stuff  I´d just make it look better than I found it and would not waste too much time because I KNOW it will never look as factory new again. It can look like new but not 100% original just like the day it left the factory. I usually paint my restored machines silver and add some sort of good looking decals.

some samples of my "restoration crimes" - some like it some don´t - I do

I put them in a condition I could sell the machines in just the other day because I never know if a better looking or better working or better for my needs better suiting machine pops up just around the corner - if you know what I mean. Some like worn looking machine that show their age - I don´t. If my machines shows signs of use It should be my signs.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Constabulary

[Parfektionisto]

Hi Constabulary,

Everyone has their personal preference when it comes to restoration, which you already mentioned in one of the earlier post and I do agree on that. There are people who don't even repaint their machines so long as it can sew, they won't be bother doing anything else. There are also people like Al, he not only repaint, but actually go all out to even find the original stand, customised the table top, and trying to find the original parts, even though he doesn't sew. Why I mentioned Al and not myself, as you already mentioned my paint colour is already not original, and none of our restoration work will come out looking like the day it came out of the factory back in 19xx, that I'm sure everyone here knows, but in my earlier post I already mentioned I like both crinkled and original shinny paint, but I choose crinkled in the end and I'm glad I did that even thought that's not the original colour. I'm not someone who will repaint my machine with fancy colour, like red or blue for example, but I'm very sure someone will like that kind of restoration. This restoration shouldn't be stressful, it should be fun. I never expect I will get so much info and knowledge starting this topic and getting to know all you guys here. Thank you everyone for the info and sharing. 

Tony