Singer 45k1 Restoration Decals

[dikman]

I hadn't intended watching all of that film - but I did! Absolutely fascinating, a time when quality control meant something.

The noise must have been horrendous, particularly in the "rumbling" area, all those steel drums filled with castings and ball bearings and rotating!!!!

It appears that they used a transfer system for the lettering, not a slide decal as we know them. The woman pressed them onto the machine, rubbed them down, peeled off the backing and then appeared to rub them very hard. Were they adhesive. or is it like the dry transfer system used with gold leaf? I couldn't tell, also I didn't see them put on a clear coat?

I loved the little loco and wagons in the yard with Singer painted on them.

[mikesc]

To see the movie on any platform/operating system..use VLC player ( VLC player works on windows, Mac, linux etc, and smartphones and tablets )

Open VLC player, next copy all of this next line

http://vod.nls.uk/hls-vod/ssa/9152/91523128.15.m3u8

Then in VLC player click "media"..select "open from clipboard"..then choose "play"

The film will begin playing..

If you want to save it to your machine / phone / whatever..as soon as the player window opens and the film starts, click the red record button towards the bottom left of the player, , it will open a dialogue box which asks you to select somewhere to save it to, or it may save it by "default" to a folder( to choose the folder, go to "tools" then "preferences" then "input and codecs settings" then "files", click on "browse" and choose where you want VLC to save files to..select the place and click OK*.

Et Voila! as we say here in France :)

HTH

*Works for any movie, any site ( that has not properly secured their files from being accessed directly ), you get the "path" to copy into your clipboard by looking at the "source code" of the page the movie is in. Accessing a file this way is not illegal, is not "hacking".

Complete sewing machine movie is quite big, ( I can't remember exactly how big, and I have it stored on an HD which isn't on this machine..just checked , it is 849.2MB ) so make sure that you have enough space if you want to store it, you can shrink it losslessly later with "handbrake" ( video transcoding software for windows and linux ) or similar on mac . You can also change the file name to "Birth of a Sewing Machine" when the recording is finished via "rename" without needing handbrake..If you do transcode later, you can get the file down to 300 to 400Mb without any quality loss, set handbrake to "very slow" and "20" at "fixed frame rate".

Wait 'til the movie has actually stopped before clicking the red button again to stop recording, on some "streams" the progress bar will reach the end long before the movie has actually ended, clicking the red button before the movie has actually stopped will result in the movie being "cut short".

ps..The original decals they show are what are called "waterslide decals"..like plastic model kits came with when I was much, much, much younger. The metal parts are "leaf" ( whether gold leaf or silver leaf cannot be distinguished from the movie, but from the way the "scraps " fly in the making the decals section towards then end of the movie, I think gold leaf ), gold leaf can be used in "waterslide" decals, as long as either "size" is applied to the surface of the support, or the support has some "slight stick", as a recently painted machine would have even after a couple of days, burnishing the decal with a cloth ( which the woman does when applying the decal earlier ) would work to make it hold.

Edited October 2, 2017 by mikesc

[Constabulary]

downloaded it with FF add on:  Video DownloadHelper - its very easy to use.

[mikesc]

Bear in mind, the version of FF 57 is set to not be compatible, some FF versions from FF 53 or FF 54 onwards already won't run some ( it will be much closer to the way chrome from Google works, will use the same "engine" as chrome ) with very very many add ons and extensions ( over 2000 of them ) rendered "not compatible" and so they won't work..VDH ( and many other add ons and extensions ) may well not work if you update FF..you might want to look into palemoon, ( works with only some ) or one of the FF "forks" being developed due to Mozilla's insistence on this "update".

There are "workarounds" that can make some ( but not all ) "add ons" and "extensions" work again..

Check your FF versions ( and add on compatibility ) before updating FF on any platform.

It is worth reading these pages.

https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2017/02/16/the-road-to-firefox-57-compatibility-milestones/

and this page to get an idea of what may have problems and how to maybe mitigate them.

https://www.ghacks.net/2017/07/07/firefox-add-ons-webextensions-state-july-2017/

@dikman..btw .."waterslide" decals can be done the way the woman is doing it, wet the surface that you are applying the decal to..rub and peel off the decal backing, then burnish with soft cloth..the decal has to have been made with a clear coat as the first layer placed on the paper..You can make your own decals, many modellers do / did.

Edited October 2, 2017 by mikesc

[jimi]

Seems to be working again.

[dikman]

Thanks Mike. My experience with waterslide decals (modelling) has been that you have to treat them very carefully once they are slid off the backing as they tend to be somewhat fragile. Which is why I thought they were using a dry rub system, judging by the effort she was applying in burnishing them down!

I wonder if we'll ever know exactly what they used?

Edited October 2, 2017 by dikman

[Evo160K]

17 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

What type of computer operating system or hand held device, as well as brand and version web browser are you using to try to open the video? Some systems may not be able to open this video unless the correct video codec is installed. Further, if you run a script blocker, the video cannot be loaded. I was able to open it in Firefox, Chrome, Edge and Internet Explorer on Windows 10.

 

Wizcrafts.  imho anyone who understands computers and the "black arts" has my respect and admiration.  Thank you.

 The computer is a Dell Inspiron 1545 running Windows 7 Home Premium.  The browser is Internet Explorer version 10.  That video has been working on my computer for 12-18 months withnot a single issue, no idea why it's not working now.  Maybe Dell changed a setting the last time they took remote control of the computer.

@ mikesc  thanks for those directions,  I'll give them a go.........as soon as I can muster the courage........damn Black Art

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Evo160K said:

Wizcrafts.  imho anyone who understands computers and the "black arts" has my respect and admiration.  Thank you.

 The computer is a Dell Inspiron 1545 running Windows 7 Home Premium.  The browser is Internet Explorer version 10.  That video has been working on my computer for 12-18 months withnot a single issue, no idea why it's not working now.  Maybe Dell changed a setting the last time they took remote control of the computer.

When did Dell take control of your laptop and why? Are you certain it was actually Dell and not a tech support scammer in India?

As was mentioned earlier, you could download VLC Player and try to play the video in that app. The player can actually register itself as a plug-in for Firefox browsers (at least up to the current version, 56).

[mikesc]

topic drift..
I wondered about that too Wiz..but , not knowing if Dell did remote support ( apparently they do ) said nothing, so as not to alarm someone ITphobic..however.
http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/customercare/f/4674/t/19633589
which might be cause for concern..
Then again, a search for "IE 10 win7 home cannot play m3u8" brings up many cases of updates to IE 10 and 11 that give problems with that file type ( and others )..might be a very good time to download FF for win 7 and VLC and set FF to not auto-update ( and thus avoid the FF57 upcoming debacle ) until Mozilla maybe get a clue.

[Evo160K]

Yes, the topic has drifted, so I'll be brief.

Downloaded VLC per Miksc's directions and was able to get the video to play.  Thank you Sir.

Wizcrafts, it was Dell support, I'm positive.  I have an annual support contract with them.  The last remote control was to update IE 7? that Microsoft stopped supporting to IE 10, and they added Google Chrome.  GC btw doesn't play the video either, I haven't a clue and don't have the patience to learn about it, thus Dell Support.

If there's a way to play the video on IE 10, I would appreciate knowing how.  I'm going to disable scriptblocker if it's on.

Thank you Gentlemen.

[Wizcrafts]

14 hours ago, Evo160K said:

Yes, the topic has drifted, so I'll be brief.

Downloaded VLC per Miksc's directions and was able to get the video to play.  Thank you Sir.

If there's a way to play the video on IE 10, I would appreciate knowing how.  I'm going to disable scriptblocker if it's on.

Thank you Gentlemen.

In the case of Windows and Internet Exploder, the operating system must provide playback support files called "codecs." Your operating system is likely missing the required "codec" to play the  .m3u8 file type used in that video. Apparently, you need both Windows 10 AND Internet Explorer 11 to play this UTF-8 encoded file type in IE. It already plays in Edge browsers, on Win 10.

I think your best bet is to use VLC Player for the m3u8 files until you upgrade to Windows 10.

[jimi]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/singer-45k-21k-Industrial-cylinder-bed-sewing-machine-/142485712377?nma=true&si=LOZNYN7I8V%2Fj7%2FahlWonkFVOFvU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

some more decals tony.

[Evo160K]

Jimi,

Seems like a lot of decals, are those original for a K21?

Was the stand included in the deal?

[Evo160K]

4 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

In the case of Windows and Internet Exploder, the operating system must provide playback support files called "codecs." Your operating system is likely missing the required "codec" to play the  .m3u8 file type used in that video. Apparently, you need both Windows 10 AND Internet Explorer 11 to play this UTF-8 encoded file type in IE. It already plays in Edge browsers, on Win 10.

I think your best bet is to use VLC Player for the m3u8 files until you upgrade to Windows 10.

 

 

Thank you Wizcrafts

[Parfektionisto]

7 hours ago, jimi said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/singer-45k-21k-Industrial-cylinder-bed-sewing-machine-/142485712377?nma=true&si=LOZNYN7I8V%2Fj7%2FahlWonkFVOFvU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

some more decals tony.

Hi Jimi,

I just check it out, but it's already sold, that's a pretty good price I think, anyone here bought that machine? Those decals are pretty much still intact, a very good reference indeed, will be better if can find out the manufactured date. Thanks Jimi.

Tony

[Uwe]

The problem with links to Ebay ads and their pictures is that they will disappear very soon. That link will be useless a few months from now. Only images that get uploaded directly here on LW stick around for a long time for future reference (site admins willing.) It would be great if some motivated person with an interest in vintage decals (yay Tony!) could download the pictures from the ebay ad and then upload them here.

[mikesc]

There ya go..images of Singer 45K21 showing decals.click on them and then on + and they'll be the same size as if you zoomed on them in the ebay ad.HTH

Edited October 4, 2017 by mikesc

[jimi]

15 hours ago, Evo160K said:

Jimi,

Seems like a lot of decals, are those original for a K21?

Was the stand included in the deal?

I would say they are original as there is nobody at the moment duplicated the detail  on these  acanthus decals. the ones on ebay are too solid looking, no detail. and the stand is not for this machine Al. there is only 2 machines i know of that used this treadle, the 29k and the class 59.

here is the detail i was talking about.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by jimi

[mikesc]

That 5th image ( where it is unbalanced on the stand ) makes me uneasy, the urge to reach out and grab it to save it from falling and breaking is very strong.

[jimi]

[Parfektionisto]

33 minutes ago, jimi said:

I would say they are original as there is nobody at the moment duplicated the detail  on these  acanthus decals. the ones on ebay are too solid looking, no detail. and the stand is not for this machine Al. there is only 2 machines i know of that used this treadle, the 29k and the class 59.

here is the detail i was talking about.

 

 

Thank you Jimi & Mikesc for the images of the machine and decals, the 29k 33 decals is incredible, it's almost like brand new. Looking at the 45k posted by Mikesc and the 29k posted by Jimi, I spotted a difference between the 2 decals typeface? The 29k decal typeface is with depth, but the 45k typeface is flat, am I right or is it because the 45k decal is worn out? 

Tony

[jimi]

Yes tony, the 45k is worn out. i am sure it was just like the 29k above when new.

[mikesc]

Agree with jimi, the floral decorations on the 45K have the shading ( known as "halftone", like the way Black and white newspaper photos were printed ), so the lettering would have had it too, it is either worn out , or the angle that the photos are taken from doesn't allow for the "halftone" to be visible on the lettering..If you imagine the way that a decal is made..

 

This is how you make a gold foil decal with linework ( maybe some colour ) and some "shading".

 

From the sewing  machine surface side outwards..

"Size layer" layer of transparent slightly sticky varnish/glue mix to hold onto any foil or "leaf" layer and to hold onto the surface that the decal is being applied to..in the Singer movie the woman wets the surfaces first, which makes me think that this lowest size layer is made with water ( or something dissolved in water ) activated glue or size varnish..Then again it may have been a bowl of "solvent" that she had ( and a more sticky solvent activated substance used in that size layer ? )..exposure to chemicals and dangerous substances and work conditions safety was not a consideration then..You got injured at work, if you could no longer work, you might get a "one off" small payment from the company, if you were lucky..and then you had to fend for yourself.

"Foil" or "leaf" layer..can be beaten "gold leaf" or any metallic "leaf"..Singer movie looks like Gold leaf is used..sheet size corresponds..sheets of gold leaf used to be bigger than they are now..most gold leaf used worldwide now comes from Australian goldmines and is beaten to "leaf" and sold by Chinese companies to world market.

"Size layer"..layer of transparent slightly sticky varnish/glue mix to hold onto any foil or "leaf" layer.

"Line work".. layer of additional colour ( if say  you have a black outline with a red inner line or colour area.. Singer "red eye" domestic machine decals for example..every additional colour requires another additional layer.

Halftone layer...printed in closely spaced black dots of varying sizes ( known as "halftone grid" )  to give 3D relief effect

"Line work" layer...( the drawing layer with the swirls , design outlines or lettering outlines.

Colour tinted clear layer.. if required

Transparent clear layer... that is only lightly attached to the paper, rubbing from the outside of the paper support, or water can allow separation from the paper.

Base layer of paper support,... often similar to grease proof cooking paper, separates from any clear layer easily..

 

Of course to make the decal you actually do that in the reverse order..beginning with the paper layer. and go back up that list..The Transparent clear layer  can be very hard wearing , and may not need any clear coating or varnishing after the decal has been applied..and it can be quite thick..as long as it detaches from the backing paper when burnished.

Very high grade decals used to be made this way..letraset for example..some companies still produce gold foil decals.

I think that the replica decal company at keesew and others just use gold coloured pigments ( screen printed decals ) but you could also use polyester film foil like for hot stamping.Whether there would be a worthwhile market for real foil decals for sewing machines is another matter.

Yes..I have owned specialist printing company that amongst other things did some decals..and also been a signwriter ( brushes and airbrushes etc ) and gilder. still have all the equipment for signwriting , airbrushing, custom painting and gilding.

 

A little research shows that in the USA genuine leaf decoration work is largely around Fire engines, with some companies offering "custom" design services..reading a few sites these "decals" are more of a sticker ( vinyl based but with metal leaf or real gold leaf )..but you might be able to get a quote out of them if you can supply images..quite a few results came up when I searched, having done gold leaf, lettering and design , gilding etc on various surfaces in the "non vinyl" way ( as well as a whole load of vinyl graphics and lettering ) I'd say their examples look reasonable ,you might give these people a call.

http://lionet.paulconwayshields.com/

They seem to be competent..of course without actually seeing "in real life", this is not a customer recommendation..maybe also talk to some people who have custom gold leaf work on their Fire engines.

 

HTH

Edited October 4, 2017 by mikesc

[Evo160K]

LW member Frankqv once mentioned there's a fellow behind his shop that does gold leaf decals for fire trucks.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Evo160K

[jimi]

Thank you mike for that information on the decals. interesting stuff. i would love to try some of these gold leaf type decals one day but i just don´t have it too clear on what those layers are made up of and how you get them together in the right place? and then all of those fine lines... are you sure she is not using a magic rolling pin of some kind?