Question on Ferdco 900B

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Ok, sewing machine gurus, I have a Ferdco 900B that I acquired when I bought a guy out, that sews just ok, but doesn't hold bobbin tension very well.  I've maxxed out the bobbin tension, I've taken the spring off and cleaned out the gunk accumulated under it, replaced the spring with a different one (that came in a box of parts that came with the machine).  Neither of the springs show very much wear, nor does the surface of the bobbin case under the spring.  However, the little notch at the far end of the slot under the spring, that the thread is supposed to snap into shows some wear, and I believe the thread is slipping out of it as the thread spools off the bobbin from side to side.  Even when the thread is properly in the little notch, however, I can't adjust it to have enough tension. There is no beehive spring inside the bobbin case, and I'm not sure there ever was one.  The manual shows to change the bobbin with the opening in the case down, so the bobbin drops right out, which makes me think there was never a spring to start with.  The manual also states that the bobbin tension should be set to "slight resistance"  when in my opinion, you'll never, ever get a tight enough stitch with "slight resistance" on the bobbin thread.  My question is, can I replace JUST the bobbin case, or is it an integral part of the whole hook assembly?  And if I DO need to buy the whole hook assembly, will the 441 hooks work?  I know that the Ferdco was made from the Consew 754R, but haven't found much online for parts for that machine.  The bobbin case itself looks identical to the one in my Cowboy 4500, on which incidentally, I can screw the tension down to where it pulls a pretty tight stitch.  The bobbin case for the CB4500 does have the beehive spring, but I don't believe that alone can create the amount of tension that I can get from it, primarily because when I bought it new, the bobbin tension was set way too loose for my liking.  Any advice? 

[Uwe]

2 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

I know that the Ferdco was made from the Consew 754R

Consew doesn't manufacture anything as far as I know, they just put a Consew badge on things others make for them. Your Ferdco may be made by Seiko, sold as a Consew, then modified by Ferdco. Your best bet may be to find out which OEM manufactured the machine that Ferdco modified. Only then will you be able to find out which parts may or may not be compatible.

Pictures always help determine the true ancestry of a machine. Please post some of yours.

You'd want to replace the entire shuttle hook, no point in trying to replace just the bobbin case. Have you tried the 441 style shuttle in your Ferdco? 

Personally I'm betting on a Seiko CH-8B, in which case you'd have to reference the Seiko CH-8B Parts Manual. An original Seiko hook (Part# 28901C) runs about $350.

Consew 754R:

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Uwe

[480volt]

It’s slightly possible that Anthony Luberto might have information on the machine. I corresponded with him about five months ago regarding an ASE #9.The Windham Cub web site has since expired, so I don’t know if he is still actively responding to email.

 

classiccub@frontier.com

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

5 hours ago, Uwe said:

Pictures always help determine the true ancestry of a machine. Please post some of yours.

Hopefully I can get a few pics to load.  The machine is actually a Ferdinand, not a Ferdco as I originally stated.  I think Ferdco came later;  this is a 1992 model.   The hook is similar to the one in the CB 4500, but not identical.  In the third pic, the bottom hook belongs to the 900B.  While each one did fit in the other machine, I was afraid to try sewing with them.  Last thing I need right now is to damage the hook for my 4500 trying it in a machine it isn't made to work in.  I did find a hook online that looks to be identical to the one in the 900B.  However, while fiddling around with it this evening, I found quite by accident that if I backed off the tension screw for the bobbin thread, it actually increased the tension a bit.  It's still not where I'd like to have it, but it is better than it was.  The thread also seemed to stay in the notch like it was supposed to.   It sewed scrap pretty well, (they all sew scrap) and then I made the mistake of trying to sew good stuff and a whole new problem presented itself, which I will deal with another day.  Thank you, Uwe, and 480 Volts also, for the info on Tony Luberto. 

[billybopp]

I wonder if it would be a worthwhile and relatively cheap experiment to put in a Cowboy beehive spring and see what it does?

Bill

[CowboyBob]

I found quite by accident that if I backed off the tension screw for the bobbin thread, it actually increased the tension a bit

That can happen if it's overtightened because the tension spring can bow in the middle.

[Uwe]

The business end of the cylinder arm on your Ferdinand actually looks identical to the Adler 205 design, but it's unclear if Ferdinand modified the hook driver in any way. Your shuttle hook may actually be compatible with the Adler 204/205 shuttle hooks. Chances are good you can find a decent aftermarket shuttle hook, but exactly which one is the right one is still unclear.

Aside from the obvious critical dimensions of diameter and thickness of the shuttle hook frame, the other important dimensions are distance from tip to butt of the shuttle hoot, measured along the outer circumference of the hook. The length of the hook tip itself must also be match the original. The bobbin case itself, the tension mechanism and what's going on inside the bobbin case is less critical.     

The bobbin case tension springs can sometimes be bent a little make it work better. I once removed the spring metal part and bent it slight down in the middle, so it would make better contact with the size 92 thread my customer wanted to work with. 

The tension spring may also buckle or arch upward in the middle if you tighten it too strong, because once the spring blade rests on the bobbin case body near the tension screw, the mechanics change. That's probably why tension increased when you backed up the tension screw a little from the over-tightened position. (as Bob also just said seconds ago.)

One other option is to fill in the worn channel on the bobbin case with silver solder or brass, but that may be a little tricky to get right.

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Uwe

[billybopp]

9 minutes ago, Uwe said:

The bobbin case tension springs can sometimes be bent a little make it work better. I once removed the spring metal part and bent it slight down in the middle, so it would make better contact with the size 92 thread my customer wanted to work with. 

I used to maintain data processing equipment for a living - things like check reader/sorters that read the print on the bottom of a check at about 1600 items per minute, and sort them out into various pockets.  One day, when I was still relatively new at it, my boss told me to bend a little lever arm a bit to correct a problem.   I expressed my concern at bending such a finely engineered piece of gear, and will never forget his reply "We don't call that bending, son.  We call it adjusting".

Bill

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

4 hours ago, Uwe said:

The bobbin case tension springs can sometimes be bent a little make it work better. I once removed the spring metal part and bent it slight down in the middle, so it would make better contact with the size 92 thread my customer wanted to work with. 

 

4 hours ago, Uwe said:

One other option is to fill in the worn channel on the bobbin case with silver solder or brass, but that may be a little tricky to get right.

I thought of both these options yesterday.  I wasn't sure how hard the steel is in the spring, and if bending it might snap it off.  Since I have a spare, it might be something to try. 

 

5 hours ago, billybopp said:

I wonder if it would be a worthwhile and relatively cheap experiment to put in a Cowboy beehive spring and see what it does?

Bill

Well that's something I didn't think of, and it might be enough to help, with the added tension from the properly tightened tension spring!

Thanks guys!

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Bob did a pretty good job on this thread about open and closed frame shuttle hook, CLICK HERE

These hooks are available, new, and like said, I'm not sure what hook came from the factory, the open or closed frame.  It almost could have been whatever the person setting up felt like putting into the machine that day.

That said, books can tell us what hook was installed from the factory say at Durkopp Adler, Juki, Seiko, or the like.  Ferdco or someone else could have installed whatever, and maybe have changed it up over the years with what they have or were sent who thought it was the correct one.  

 

[Ken Nelson]

I had one of these a couple of years ago.  It was messed up pretty bad.  The shuttle was a bit too big and I ended up getting a  slightly smaller one and that took care of that.  I got the parts I needed from cambell/bosworth and they were great, very helpful.  I bought one of Tony Luberto's service videos and without it, it would have been tough for me.  A bargain.  I may have it around here someplace.   It was a  super good machine when I finally got everything right.  Sewed really good and tight stitches. 

[Ken Nelson]

The hook on the one I had was the same as in my Cobra class 4 and it was about 1/32 to 1/16th " too  big.  Fit in the race but would not let the thread pass between the driver and shuttle. 

[Ken Nelson]

The one I had was built by Seiko badged Consew.

[Old Coach Saddlery]

Quote

Tony Luberto is the guy to contact. He has the hooks in stock. I had him out to work on my Bull in September. Get his DVD it is very helpful and covers everything,

 

 

[Old Coach Saddlery]

And yes the bobbins fall right out when you open it in the down position. I use a Ferdinand 900b at my work and home and they both do it.

 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

2 minutes ago, Old Coach Saddlery said:

And yes the bobbins fall right out when you open it in the down position. I use a Ferdinand 900b at my work and home and they both do it.

 

I thought it odd that the manual instructs to open the bobbin case with the needle down, which means the bobbin case is pointing down as well.  I guess that's so they didn't have to use a spring?

 

1 hour ago, Ken Nelson said:

The hook on the one I had was the same as in my Cobra class 4 and it was about 1/32 to 1/16th " too  big.  Fit in the race but would not let the thread pass between the driver and shuttle. 

So apparently, the original hook in your machine had been replaced at some point?  At least you have an extra for your Cobra!  If you find your video and would care to part with it, I'd be interested.

 

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 7:58 AM, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

Bob did a pretty good job on this thread about open and closed frame shuttle hook, CLICK HERE

These hooks are available, new, and like said, I'm not sure what hook came from the factory, the open or closed frame.  It almost could have been whatever the person setting up felt like putting into the machine that day.

That said, books can tell us what hook was installed from the factory say at Durkopp Adler, Juki, Seiko, or the like.  Ferdco or someone else could have installed whatever, and maybe have changed it up over the years with what they have or were sent who thought it was the correct one.  

Gregg, thank you for that information.  So in reading the linked thread, I take it to mean that open frame/closed frame really doesn't matter so much, as long as the circumference and distance from heel to point is the same.  I haven't had time to fiddle around with the machine since last weekend, and since I do have other machines that I can use, it's not imperative that I figure it out immediately.  It was just extremely frustrating at the time, and if it's going to be a permanent fixture, it will have to get sewing eventually. 

Thanks again guys,  when I have time to get back to it, I'll let you know how it turns out. 

[Darren Brosowski]

An extension of what Bob said is that if the tension screw has been wound down too hard for two long the spring may have a permanent bend in it which can be fixed by holding one end with a pair of pliers and gently bending it a tiny amount the other way