how do I mass produce belts

[Jake907]

Hi all, I'm new here but looking forward to getting to know you all. I recently was approached by a local gift shop owner looking for handmade belts. In the past I've always made a belt as a custom product for an individual, and anyone that's ever made a belt for someone based on their pants size, knows how very mistaken that number is. Does anyone have a formula, or a rule of thumb, or anything else that might help me with this? Thanks in advance. -Jake

[LatigoAmigo]

Found this link that you might find helpful: http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/76632-standard-sizes-for-making-belts/?tab=comments#comment-506249

Also, this PDF.

Dress Belts size chart.pdf

[TSes]

Hopefully, the shop owner wants the finished product in his shop. That way you won't have to take time to fit each one. We keep size 30 through size 50 in stock at all times. His sales will determine what is best for you. Usually, 36 through 44 make up most of our sales. This is for a standard, not fancy belt. The first thing for you to do is make a specific sized belt in your normal way. We make only even numbered sizes (32-34-36-etc.). We make our center hole 5 1/2" from the tip, and add 3 1/4" at the buckle end. Take the belt apart, and measure the total length. Then subtract the size of the belt, and the remainder is the amount to add on to any size you need. Using our measurements, a size 40 belt would need a blank of 48 3/4". A ranger style or lined belt won't work using this formula. We only use 2 buckles. Stainless or brass of the same design. Too many options mean more precise measuring.   Hope this helps.

Edited November 26, 2017 by TSes
add on

[alpha2]

TSes has some very good advice right there...Remember, there is only Custom, and mass produced. If you try to go with semi-custom, or kinda mass produced, you will hemorrhage money and time. Oh, and leather!

[OLDNSLOW]

Put a few up for display and let them sell them with their markup or discount them and make sure you have a makers stamp on them.  If they want a stock supply and your a one man shop it is really a hard way to go unless you have family to help.  it has been many years since I was in the Anchorage, Fairbanks area but I don't think you have many fellers up there, that are growed as big as they can git down here in the Holler n Hills of the south so that average size might just work.  

[Jake907]

5 hours ago, LatigoAmigo said:

Found this link that you might find helpful: http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/76632-standard-sizes-for-making-belts/?tab=comments#comment-506249

Also, this PDF.

Dress Belts size chart.pdf

Latino, that chart is exactly what I was looking for, Thank you!

 

3 hours ago, TSes said:

Hopefully, the shop owner wants the finished product in his shop. That way you won't have to take time to fit each one. We keep size 30 through size 50 in stock at all times. His sales will determine what is best for you. Usually, 36 through 44 make up most of our sales. This is for a standard, not fancy belt. The first thing for you to do is make a specific sized belt in your normal way. We make only even numbered sizes (32-34-36-etc.). We make our center hole 5 1/2" from the tip, and add 3 1/4" at the buckle end. Take the belt apart, and measure the total length. Then subtract the size of the belt, and the remainder is the amount to add on to any size you need. Using our measurements, a size 40 belt would need a blank of 48 3/4". A ranger style or lined belt won't work using this formula. We only use 2 buckles. Stainless or brass of the same design. Too many options mean more precise measuring.   Hope this helps.

Yes, the shop owner wants the finished products available in the store, thats the reason I was stumped. Thank you for the advice, I need to be a little more intentional and mathematical in my belt making. And thank you for giving me an idea of the size range I need to consider, that was another thing I wanted to ask about. 

1 hour ago, alpha2 said:

TSes has some very good advice right there...Remember, there is only Custom, and mass produced. If you try to go with semi-custom, or kinda mass produced, you will hemorrhage money and time. Oh, and leather!

I mis-spoke, "mass produced" tends to conjure images of a belt rack in Wal-Mart, what I meant was several pre-made belts :-)

51 minutes ago, OLDNSLOW said:

Put a few up for display and let them sell them with their markup or discount them and make sure you have a makers stamp on them.  If they want a stock supply and your a one man shop it is really a hard way to go unless you have family to help.  it has been many years since I was in the Anchorage, Fairbanks area but I don't think you have many fellers up there, that are growed as big as they can git down here in the Holler n Hills of the south so that average size might just work.  

This gift shop is a small local store, they are consistent but not a major player. Also, they display the business cards of all the artists at the front counter which is nice. I think I'll be able to stock one of each size for starters. 

Thanks all!

 

 

[flagshipsupply]

2 hours ago, alpha2 said:

TSes has some very good advice right there...Remember, there is only Custom, and mass produced. If you try to go with semi-custom, or kinda mass produced, you will hemorrhage money and time. Oh, and leather!

@alpha2 -  This has me pondering and philosphizin'. Sounds like wisdom from experience.  So I'm hoping you can expound on this a bit.

I started my leather working journey because of belts. I couldn't find a decent belt at retail. Anywhere. I've always been a diy maker kind of guy, so I got it in my head to make one myself.....if only i knew that would lead me into the bottomless pit that is leather craft. 

Fast forward 6 years, and I have my own decently equipped leather shop. Several  well received small batch runs of heavy work belts, & a few dozen custom sheaths & holsters under my 'belt' (pun intended).....and now I too have several local retailers asking me to develop a belt line to keep in stock.  A glimmer of light at the end of the bottomless pit!! Alas....perhaps a chance at sustaining this wacky hobby of mine.  I figured...hmmm, ok couldnt hurt to churn out belts in my free time after work...a little extra cash? Maybe a viable venture in sight?

After analyzing my process, I realized that the primary inefficiency was in skiving. It took me so long to skive my buckle ends with that silly little tandy pro skiver. So i finally snagged a proper 8" splitter / skiver to streamline the process. 

Now I can sail through those skives with precision results and easily whip out runs of belts. 

It's still super hard to plan for standard sizing needs though. 

Still, so many people come to me with the same narrative - " I cant find a good solid belt that gets better with time like my dad's did "  - I cant help but feeling like there is a niche market to fill there. But then again, I am still very green in my leather career.

So is there really no middle ground on belts between custom one-offs and full on automated strap cutting / edge beveling /burnishing?

- Matt

 

[alpha2]

It all has to do with return on investment, ROI. That means time, as well as money. As you've e seen, a real skiver is major time saver, as well as a more precise way to do that kind of skiving. Things that didn't make sense for making one or two belts a month, are a necessity for serious production. That being said, a three thousand dollar stitcher, requires a LOT of belts and sheaths to get a return on investment. I'm retiring in a month. I'll have a lot more time on my hands, but I still don't want to make 5 dollars an hour doing leatherwork. I can get a part time job, make more money, and still do leatherwork for fun. You have to decide where that break point is. You can make a nice burnisher with a cheap used motor, and that will save some time. Personally, I'd like to have a larger motor, and a huge buffing wheel to do my buffing! 

So, yes there is a middle ground, but it has to be tailored to what you want to put into it, as opposed to what you'll get out of it. Pricing of the product is a big deal, as you can imagine. You'll read elsewhere on this forum of people that discover what their particular market will bear. Selling a lot of less expensive items generally, but occasionally some high quality, high dollar belts, holsters, etc. to round out their offerings. 

BTW, I seem to be selling a lot of dog collars, lately. You can get the same return with a lot less leather! 

Off topic, I see you are into green woodworking. I have an idea what that is, but I may be way off. What is it exactly?

Jeff

[flagshipsupply]

12 hours ago, alpha2 said:

It all has to do with return on investment, ROI. That means time, as well as money. As you've e seen, a real skiver is major time saver, as well as a more precise way to do that kind of skiving. Things that didn't make sense for making one or two belts a month, are a necessity for serious production. That being said, a three thousand dollar stitcher, requires a LOT of belts and sheaths to get a return on investment. I'm retiring in a month. I'll have a lot more time on my hands, but I still don't want to make 5 dollars an hour doing leatherwork. I can get a part time job, make more money, and still do leatherwork for fun. You have to decide where that break point is. You can make a nice burnisher with a cheap used motor, and that will save some time. Personally, I'd like to have a larger motor, and a huge buffing wheel to do my buffing! 

So, yes there is a middle ground, but it has to be tailored to what you want to put into it, as opposed to what you'll get out of it. Pricing of the product is a big deal, as you can imagine. You'll read elsewhere on this forum of people that discover what their particular market will bear. Selling a lot of less expensive items generally, but occasionally some high quality, high dollar belts, holsters, etc. to round out their offerings. 

BTW, I seem to be selling a lot of dog collars, lately. You can get the same return with a lot less leather! 

Off topic, I see you are into green woodworking. I have an idea what that is, but I may be way off. What is it exactly?

Jeff

@alpha2     Yeah definitely,  I mean the same  principals of business finance apply to any retail / manufacturing model across the board.  ROI  & accurately calculated Profit Margins are the bottom line in determining  whether a model is viable.  Even if the numbers line up, the variable is sales - can you rely on the fact that there will be a consistent market demanding your goods/services?  Is there a never ending stream of people out there who care about the difference between a "genuine leather" composite belt from Wallmart, and a top grain 12 oz. english bridal belt with good hardware? No - there isn't.  But there are a few - a handful in each town maybe. And more & more consumers are getting fed up with low quality products and throw away culture in general. So there is a fairly decent opportunity for the retailer/maker to produce marketing aimed at educating and converting would be customers, but again, production costs can climb high very fast.  For a small maker that can jimmy rig his own burnisher (I actually rigged mine out of an old dryer motor ), build his own website, produce his own marketing content, and afford to build a unique regional model slow & steady, the middle ground might be able to work. But its definitely a long haul project i think. Not a get rich quick scheme by any means. 

So in the end, I'm right there with you. I work a full time day job, and work on craft as my side hustle.  At best I build a brand known for quality over the long term while having fun with my hobby. At worst, I keep making rad leather gear and give it away to friends & family as gifts. Either way I'm having fun. 

Green woodworking revolves around working wood while it still green (not dry yet), almost exclusively with simple hand tools. Axes, adzes, knife, drawknife, spokeshave, etc. Some guys get as fancy as making an entire windsor chair using basic tools and greenwood! Me & my pals mainly carve spoons. Sitting around in the woods with axes & knives, fire & beers talking craft and making shavings can be a pretty fun time. 

-Matt

[RockyAussie]

7 hours ago, flagshipsupply said:

Sitting around in the woods with axes & knives, fire & beers talking craft and making shavings can be a pretty fun time. 

Now that I can see as a way of making the moola and having some fun as well myself. Heaps of green wood on my place to hack up as well.

[Firewalker]

On 11/26/2017 at 4:58 PM, TSes said:

Hopefully, the shop owner wants the finished product in his shop. That way you won't have to take time to fit each one. We keep size 30 through size 50 in stock at all times. His sales will determine what is best for you. Usually, 36 through 44 make up most of our sales. This is for a standard, not fancy belt. The first thing for you to do is make a specific sized belt in your normal way. We make only even numbered sizes (32-34-36-etc.). We make our center hole 5 1/2" from the tip, and add 3 1/4" at the buckle end. Take the belt apart, and measure the total length. Then subtract the size of the belt, and the remainder is the amount to add on to any size you need. Using our measurements, a size 40 belt would need a blank of 48 3/4". A ranger style or lined belt won't work using this formula. We only use 2 buckles. Stainless or brass of the same design. Too many options mean more precise measuring.   Hope this helps.

That is a solid answer!  Well done.