441 bobbins 30mm long too long for Cobra Class 4 problem

[carolem]

Hello,

I am new to this forum, although I read a lot of postings and found some very helpful information.  I searched and could not find anyone with my problem. 

I bought a Cobra Class 4 package a few years ago and it was the BEST  decision of my life.  I have had nothing but joy from running this machine.  I had been buying generic 441 bobbins that fit great in the machine that were about 28.5 mm long.  Now it seems all of the generic 441 bobbins that I used to buy on Ebay are 30mm+ long. They are too long to fit in the bobbin case and be able to shut it closed.  I was told that the Juki 441 generic bobbins are 30mm long and I was just lucky to get shorter ones.  I am on a tight budget and though $4 for a bobbin won't break the bank, $19+ for shipping does.  I use a lot of different colors of thread, so I use a lot of bobbins.  Has anyone else experienced this problem with the bobbins being 30mm long not fitting in your 441 clone? 

Edited December 5, 2017 by carolem

[Mark842]

Yep. Some of them are. just a thought... I almost always just use black on the bobbin thread as I don't make many products that both sides need to be the same color. If you have your tension set correctly you will not be able to see the bobbin thread from the top side of your product. Don't know if this will work for you as I realize some stuff needs to have both sides the same color.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I have a Cowboy 4500 and have ordered the generic bobbins from Weaver.  They fit, but are steel instead of aluminum and have kind of rough machining.  I got a couple aluminum bobbins from Cowboy Bob a few weeks ago when I bought an inline foot.  They are really nice,  maybe even nicer than the original ones that came with my machine.  So far I have not had any trouble with any of the bobbins fitting into the bobbin case.  Nineteen bucks for shipping?? Where in the world are they coming from. . .that's ridiculous!

[carolem]

I sew a lot of colored material and people see both sides, so both sides have to match the thread color to the material colors.  It is a real pain and expensive to have to unravel a bunch of colored thread off a bobbin to then rewind some new color.  The market segment that I sew for really hates to see the thread not match with what it is being sewn on.  I sew a lot of colored materials,  trims and colored webbings as overlays.  

I find it hard to believe that some 441 clones use 30mm length bobbins and some cannot fit that size in the casing so need a 28mm length.  I noticed that the Cowboy CB4500 bobbins state that they are 7/8" x 1"" large capacity.  So  1" would be about 24mm.   With vendors going to the 30mm bobbin length as standard, this is causing me a problem with my Cobra bobbin casing not being able to shut with a 30mm length bobbin inserted. 

I found some bobbins that look exactly like the ones I have now and are  cheaper to ship from China with a tracking number.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/441-sewing-machine-bobbin-bobbin-CowBoy-models-dedicated-machine-sewing-machine-parts-CB4500-aluminum-bobbin/32675235156.html? . The picture showed they are less than 30mm.  I just wonder if it will actually arrive looking like that.  

Is anyone else having a problem with their 441 clone not being able to handle a 30mm long bobbin? 

Is 30mm really the standard  length for a 441 bobbin?

If so, would not all the people that have bought Cobra class 4 and Cowboy 4500 noticed this issue of generic bobbins no longer being made shorter than 30mm long?  Seems like that would be important thing to know that 441 parts are not interchangeable among clones. 

The bobbin with the thread is one of the original ones. The one on the right is the generic Juki 441 , steel version that is 30mm. Both have the same diameters. Just different lengths.  I have a Weaver Wholesale account and looked at their 020-00-2-1-0 bobbin, but could not find a spec on dimensions.

Edited December 6, 2017 by carolem

[carolem]

I have a box of 10 of these steel ones, that I cannot use.   If you bought some in the USA, what pricing and shipping did you end up paying and where? Thanks.

 

[RockyAussie]

12 hours ago, carolem said:

Hello,

I am new to this forum, although I read a lot of postings and found some very helpful information.  I searched and could not find anyone with my problem. 

I bought a Cobra Class 4 package a few years ago and it was the BEST  decision of my life.  I have had nothing but joy from running this machine.  I had been buying generic 441 bobbins that fit great in the machine that were about 28.5 mm long.  Now it seems all of the generic 441 bobbins that I used to buy on Ebay are 30mm+ long. They are too long to fit in the bobbin case and be able to shut it closed.  I was told that the Juki 441 generic bobbins are 30mm long and I was just lucky to get shorter ones.  I am on a tight budget and though $4 for a bobbin won't break the bank, $19+ for shipping does.  I use a lot of different colors of thread, so I use a lot of bobbins.  Has anyone else experienced this problem with the bobbins being 30mm long not fitting in your 441 clone? 

There are a few very knowledgeable sewing machine people on this site and experience has shown that they tend to give their advise back more so, when the questions are asked in the Leather Sewing machines section. I would repost it there and see how you go. I have a 441 clone but it can take either long or short bobbins. Brian

Edited December 6, 2017 by RockyAussie
misspelled

[garypl]

I bought aluminum bobbins from Bob at Toledo Sewing and I believe they were $4 each.  Shipping was reasonable - typical for shipments in the USA. Give Bob a call - his number is listed in his banner ad at the top of the page.  You can trust him and won’t have to wait 30 days to receive your order!

[carolem]

Thanks for all the good advice.  When I was researching brands of 441 clones, I never came across anything that said  that different brands of 441 clones did not share a standard 441 part.  

[Wizcrafts]

@carolem

I would recommend buying your bobbins from the dealer who sells that machine. I can't imagine why you haven't been doing this all along. You have a Cobra, so why not order bobbins from Leather Machine Company, the owner of that brand? Their bobbins will fit their shuttles, or they will be replaced if a bad one slips through Q.C. If the dealers start getting wrong size bobbins, they will complain to their Chinese suppliers and get them replaced with proper bobbins.

As for me, I own a Cowboy CB4500 and I buy bobbins, needles and thread from the dealer who sold the machine to me.

If you ordered these oversize bobbins directly from China, contact them about exchanging them. At least let them know that their bobbins don't fit main brand name 441 clones. They may have mistakenly sent bobbins for a different type of hook.

Now, I do want to mention that I have acquired a couple of bobbins that were marginally longer than others (maybe 1/2 mm). They just barely protrude past the end of the bobbin case, but the case still closes in the shuttle. These bobbins cause the bobbin thread tension to increase, compared to the bobbins that don't protrude past the edge of the case.

You can still use your oversize bobbins if you remove the behive ejection spring inside the bobbin case (not recommended). I would just buy more bobbins from Cobra Steve, or Cowboy Bob.

[Wizcrafts]

9 minutes ago, carolem said:

Thanks for all the good advice.  When I was researching brands of 441 clones, I never came across anything that said  that different brands of 441 clones did not share a standard 441 part.  

There are many differences between 441 clones. There are only a handful of top tier brands (see the ads on top of our pages), but lots of lower quality brands (mystery brands on eBay, or Alibaba). For instance, if you bought your bobbins from a company that supplies them to a lower quality 441 brand manufacturer, they might be using hooks that require 30mm bobbins. Or, that brand might use bobbin cases that do not incorporate an ejector spring., which itself takes up room inside the case. Without that spring, the bobbins can be longer and hold a few turns more thread. Those companies won't care if their bobbins don't fit inside a Cobra, Cowboy or Techsew machine. Competition is as competition does!

[carolem]

Hi, I was going to buy the $4 bobbins from Cobra directly , but the shopping cart check out put $19 in for shipping and it kept increasing the number of bobbins I put in by a lot, so there was no point I felt it was worth it. 

When I saw a posting recommending Gold Star tools for some items, I saw that they offer the bobbins.  I was very happy with their bobbins as they worked.  Price is $3 and shipping is fixed and low.   They also sell on Ebay with free shipping.  I contacted them about the size change and showing the picture. He said the 30mm is standard 441 size.

I was disappointed and worried to learn that 441 clone parts vary in size even among the top brands recommended.  I love my machine. It has been great from day 1.  I found it a power house. So much so, I accidentally sewed through my thumb in the first year.  So , I don't want to sound like a whiner.  I appreciate you taking the time to educate me.  

Edited December 6, 2017 by carolem

[CowboyBob]

When some places get parts they don't know how long they are supposed to be.They order the part it comes in for the # they gave & they ship them out.It has happened to us so we try to check parts before we ship.I've NEVER heard of any 441 type of machine taking a bobbin any longer than standard.The 441 bobbins are all the same length from Cowboy,Cobra,Techsew & Juki.

[carolem]

Thank you Cowboy Bob for letting me know.  What is the standard length?

 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I measured the ones I got from Cowboy Bob, they are about 27-28 mm

 

[RockyAussie]

15 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

There are many differences between 441 clones. There are only a handful of top tier brands (see the ads on top of our pages), but lots of lower quality brands (mystery brands on eBay, or Alibaba). For instance, if you bought your bobbins from a company that supplies them to a lower quality 441 brand manufacturer, they might be using hooks that require 30mm bobbins. Or, that brand might use bobbin cases that do not incorporate an ejector spring., which itself takes up room inside the case. Without that spring, the bobbins can be longer and hold a few turns more thread. Those companies won't care if their bobbins don't fit inside a Cobra, Cowboy or Techsew machine. Competition is as competition does!

That will explain why I have been able to use either size in mine... it does not have an ejector spring in it. I had not seen an ejector spring in the Juki or Cowboy parts lists so I just didn't know they should have one. I guess I never get up any sort of serious speed with mine so as long as it keeps on stitching good for now I will keep it in mind if I ever need to get it up a bit faster. Thanks Wiz

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

These bobbins can be a real problem.  I usually like to sell genuine Durkopp Adler steel bobbins.  Bobbin dimensions are important, but also important are where the holes on the side of the bobbin are located and the size.  The reason is that many bobbin winders will not work with the bobbins if the hole is not made in the correct location and with the correct size hole.

[Wizcrafts]

38 minutes ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

These bobbins can be a real problem.  I usually like to sell genuine Durkopp Adler steel bobbins.  Bobbin dimensions are important, but also important are where the holes on the side of the bobbin are located and the size.  The reason is that many bobbin winders will not work with the bobbins if the hole is not made in the correct location and with the correct size hole.

Amen! I have taken a drill or strand of round Emory cord to elongate one of the holes on some of my 441 bobbins to get them to fit over the bobbin winder pin. I imagine it is possible that the pin itself could vary in position from the top of the shaft, from brand to brand, or batch to batch.

[CowboyBob]

We always use the notch that runs from the center instead of the hole.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

2 hours ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

These bobbins can be a real problem.  I usually like to sell genuine Durkopp Adler steel bobbins.  Bobbin dimensions are important, but also important are where the holes on the side of the bobbin are located and the size.  The reason is that many bobbin winders will not work with the bobbins if the hole is not made in the correct location and with the correct size hole.

 

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

1 hour ago, CowboyBob said:

We always use the notch that runs from the center instead of the hole.

Amen! I have taken a drill or strand of round Emory cord to elongate one of the holes on some of my 441 bobbins to get them to fit over the bobbin winder pin. I imagine it is possible that the pin itself could vary in position from the top of the shaft, from brand to brand, or batch to batch.

I've gotten steel bobbins that had NO hole at all, just the notch, which was when I learned to align the notch with the bobbin winder instead of the hole.  I use the hole to tie the thread end through and then cut the knot and end when I'm done winding.  Of course the nicer bobbins have a hole on both sides plus the notch, so when you slip the bobbin on the winder if you turn it a little it'll catch one of them.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Here are two bobbin winder winders that will not work unless the hole is there, this is from An Adler 266, as one example.

This bobbin is used all over the place on many machines, and this one is my standard.  I'm quite sure you can get other off brands that will work correctly as well.  These are not magic bobbins.