Opinions on new Patch/Shoe Machines

[sjharumph]

Looking for opinions regarding a new patch machine.  Our shop uses Singer 29U171A and Adler 30-1 .  Motorized and sewing as constantly as we can keep them in shape.

Have rebuilt and replaced most parts several times and will do so for as long as we can.   Just looking for information regarding new patch machines in case we need to grab one quickly as a backup.

The only one that claims made in Taiwan so far it the Econosew.   I believe, and correct me please if I'm wrong,  Cowboy, Consew,  Techsew,  Saito,  Japsew, Sewline, Ankai are all Chinese made?  Is that necessarily bad and is one brand above the others?

If anyone wants to sell a Pfaff 8346,  we'll give that a go also.  

Thank you in advance for any advice offered.  Very best regards,   Sam

 

[ljk]

Hello The owner of my old leather business bought one  for $50.  Since

I fix all the sewing machines of friends, even acquaintances, she asked me to

fix it. Many things wrong not many bad. Been10 years on the road and at the shop repairing

leather items.  This was a Consew short arm and the quality was good.

(my opinion) Always buy new,  I usually don't take this advice.   tx Lynn

[Uwe]

You can still buy Adler 30-10 and Adler 30-70 patcher sewing machines new, made in Germany, and with a price tag to match. The production, development, and support of these machines was taken over by a company called, take a breath, "SL-Spezialnaehmaschinenbau Limbach GmbH & Co. KG", exhale.

You can find them online at http://www.sl-spezial.de/sl/index.php/company.html

 

 

Our resident patcher experts on LW are @Constabulary, who had some beautiful patchers for sale just recently, and @shoepatcher, who apparently owns every patcher ever made, or something close to that.

 

In the clone world, I had a Techsew 2900 (a copy of a late Singer 29 style patcher) some time ago that appeared to be very nice quality:

 

 

 

 

[shoepatcher]

Having worked on most of them, the best shoepatcher made is the Claes.  It has superior engineering and Claes has made shoepatchers since about 1869!  They are not cheap but they go and go and go.  A new Adler cost almost as much as a Claes.  No one has tried to Clone the machine.  If I was 20 years younger, I would have sent it to China to be knocked off.  Great machine.  Biggest drawback is the price.   However, still a shoe patcher and there is know way it is worth $5000.00 for the head.  Hell, an original Adler 205 head was about $5,000.00 and that was so much more machine both in sewing capacities and what was involved to manufacturer it.  Claes is not built in large numbers and that is one reason they cost so much.  If you are going to use shoepatchers a lot, look at the Claes.  You will not be disappointed with the machine.

glenn

[Constabulary]

Claes patchers are for sure the best you can find. However - its the same as with all other sewing machines. It depends on what you want or need.

If you can live with an average stich length of 4-5mm and you don't sew thicker than let say 6mm to max. 8mm then I would buy one of the later Singer 29K models like 29K71, 29K72 or 29k73 (or a well setup China clone) - reason is the availability of after market parts for these machine. Meaning on the long view you can always find reasonable priced spare parts and they are available almost everywhere. Meaning using a later model 29K machine for a long time can be very economical. That is the main reason why I´m using a 29K71 though I could easily find CLAES patchers too but they all have a long arm. Other reason for my 29K71 is the nice short arm - is very space saving and machine weight a lot less - (easy to move / transport). Down side is the small bobbin but I can live with it as I´m barely using my 29K71 but its a nice to have machine.

If you want to use the machine in a business I would not buy a Singer other than the below mentioned because spare parts of the earlier models are hard to find. Some earlier 29K machines share parts with the below mentioned but most wear parts (especially gear box parts) are absolutely obsolete and have not been produced for many decades. Well - the 29K60 and 29K62 are candidates I would consider too as they just differ a tiny bit from the below mentioned:

• 29K71 - short arm, small bobbin
• 29K72 - long arm, large bobbin (approx double the capacity) - uses same hook as Adler 30-7 / 30-70
• 29K73 - long arm, small bobbin

That does not mean earlier 29K´s are bad - its just the situation of spare parts that make them "less attractive" - in my opinion.

Adler 30-1 / 30-10, 30/15, 30-7 / 30-7 have approx the same capabilities as the Singer 29K model (same presser feet, stitch length, foot lift and hook sizes) with exception of the 30-7 / 30-70 - it is using a longer needle and can sew approx 2mm sticker (up to approx 10mm). But Adler machines are technically stuck at the mid of the 1930´s - they are pretty much still the same. Just  just minor things have changed but no real big improvements - well they changed the casting but the basic sewing technology is still the same. Singer actually made a few steps forward technically and that lead to that they (and not Adler) are nowadays heavily copied by many Chinese manufacturers. THATS the reason why spare parts for the above mentioned Singer 29K are available at fair prices.

• 30-1 / 30-10 - long arm, small bobbin
• 30/15 - short arm, small bobbin
• 30-7 / 30-7 - long arm, large bobbin, higher foot lift, can sew ~2mm thicker than any Singer or any other Adler 30.

30-3 and 30-5 are not very wide spread so I do not list them.

Problem: Adler spare parts are EXTREMLY expensive and no generic or aftermarket parts are available (as far as I know).

A new Adler machine is not better than a new Singer 29K machines. And from my experience Adler is not better build and is not lasting longer than a Singer 29K. A worn Adler can have the same problems as a worn Singer 29K - they even share some parts (same presser feet, hooks and bobbins...). The big advantage of the Singer 29K is the spare parts situation!

However - one should not underestimate the capabilities of the 30-7 and 30-70 but again - it depends on if you really need their features or not. I don´t need these feature!

 

CLAES Patcher are class of its own. Being honest the nicest patcher I have ever sewn with was a 200-3. That was so unbelievable smooth running and made stitches of approx 6.5 - 7mm. Was a tough decision not to keep it but I just don´t need a patcher of this size so I kept my little 29K71.

I have worked on more Adler 30 and Singer 29K than on CLAES patchers so my technical knowledge on CLAES is limited. The longest stitch length of any Claes patcher I have seen (no matter the age or condition) was 6mm up to 7mm at max.. Seems they were ahead of its time and their feeding system is causing less wear on the parts. Let me try to sort the models and sub classes....

The Mod. RPX and Mod. 200 Claes patchers are approx the same - I actually do not know the difference between the two. Either one came in 3 (RPX) or 4 (Mod. 200) basic sub classes and all have a long arm

• #1 - small bobbin, Sys. 81 needle system - can sew up to 10mm
• #2 - medium bobbin, Sys. 81 needle system can sew up to 10mm
• #3 - large bobbin, longer Sys. 88 needle system - can sew up to 12mm
• #3A - large bobbin, longer Sys. 328 / 214 needle system - can sew up to 15mm

PRX was not available in a #A3 subclass if I recall correctly. #A3 came with the Mod. 200 first. However - the #A3 subclass is extremely hard to find.

Successor was the CLAES 8245. It also came in 4 basic subclasses but you had many more option regarding the stand and motorization. The basic sub classes are:

• 8345/10 - small bobbin, Sys. 81 needle system - can sew up to 10mm
• 8345/20 - medium bobbin, Sys. 81 needle system can sew up to 10mm
• 8345/30 - large bobbin, longer Sys. 88 needle system - can sew up to 12mm
• 8345/40 - large bobbin, longer Sys. 328 / 214 needle system - can sew up to 15mm

The latest / up to date CLAES patcher model is the 8346 - it only comes in 3 subclasses. It is the most expensive patcher ever I think (when bough new) but for sure the most technically advanced model.

• 8346/10 - small bobbin, Sys. 81 needle system - can sew up to 10mm
• 8346/20 - medium bobbin, Sys. 81 needle system can sew up to 10mm
• 8346/30 - large bobbin, longer Sys. 88 needle system - can sew up to 12mm

If I had to choose between a new Adler 30-70 or a new Claes 8346-30 I would immediately choose the Claes 8346-30!

But CLAES parts are also quite expensive (hooks are very expensive) - still would rather choose a new Claes than a new Adler.

I once visited the CLAES factory. I was in the area when I picked up a used band saw so I took the chance and asked for some spare parts which they sold with a smile.  And that was so cool - they have a ZIGZAG variant of their 8346 and they even demonstrated it to me though I bough just a few bits for a few bucks. That is such a cool machine!!! Great service there!!! But thats a different story.

BTW - some os the spare parts still remained the same meaning some parts of the 200 model are still available but not all.

Pfaff or Metro Special 8346 are all made by CLAES - Pfaff just puts their label on it. Belief it or not I once even have seen a CLAES patcher with Singer decals.

All above to my best knowledge and my own opinion.

Maybe SHOEPATCHER can make a few more commends on CLAES patchers - the above is all I know.

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Constabulary

[AdamPCain]

Near the Philly area on craigslist theres a Adler patcher fo $3000 looks almost new.

[HatoriKun]

If price is not a big deal! Get a new Claes 8346 for sure. But be aware that Spare part prices is ...Was about to say as exspensive as Adler parts.

...Can tell you! New hook! sub class 30 is in USD $300,- range