Handmade machine stitched?

[bikermutt07]

A lot of good points here. 

[DJole]

5 hours ago, OLDNSLOW said:

I'll be honest here I didn't read everything, but don't we sell the SIZZLE AND NOT the STEAK?  hand sewn, machine sewn, but feel the SUPPLENESS of that rich leather? 

Or am I wrong good night.

What first came to my mind when I read this was this: 

 

[updn]

I agree with alpha and Mark.....it really also does depend on the customer and if they understand or appreciate the strong...almost indestructible hand stitching.  I have included a picture of a luggage piece of mine...it is all hand stitched with saddlers stitch but because it having many double stitch lines the complete bag would take me 7 hours approx...the black vegtan was also hand dyed. It retails at €450 and I sell mainly on hip markets and nobody would buy it at that price....someone said to me they would not expect tp pay that price at a market...but if I machine sew it it would probably take me 4 hours and cost €320... now that price is more easy to sell. I think the beauty is to emulate the hand stitching as much as possible with a machine so the look is similar..I still will close the stitching lines with backwards saddlers stitch for strength...now I still consider this then to be hand made..will be using or getting a cobra 4 soon so it will also manage stitching with a thickness of yarn of 277 and 346.. and intend to use a rounded needle to have a slightly slanted look...

[Dun]

^that is beautiful. And luggage is one of the few things the durability of handstitching would be worth spending more on.

Not the original topic of calling machine stitched hand made or not but I do think about this stuff:

Leather is an odd thing these days. Do I need a dopp kit that will last me 40 years if I recondition it every 6 months? Will I pay more for the industrable nature of handstitching in a zippered pen case as opposed to a machine stitched one? 

Anything I personally am hand stitching, probably doesn't NEED to be industructable. 

I don't have a machine but I shouldn't be inflating the cost of an eye glasses sleeve because it has industructable saddle stitching. It's not like a bifold wallet NEEDS to be strong enough to keep me from falling off a horse like saddle stitched stuff is designed to.

[RockyAussie]

23 minutes ago, Dun said:

^that is beautiful. And luggage is one of the few things the durability of handstitching would be worth spending more on.

Not the original topic of calling machine stitched hand made or not but I do think about this stuff:

Leather is an odd thing these days. Do I need a dopp kit that will last me 40 years if I recondition it every 6 months? Will I pay more for the industrable nature of handstitching in a zippered pen case as opposed to a machine stitched one? 

Anything I personally am hand stitching, probably doesn't NEED to be industructable. 

I don't have a machine but I shouldn't be inflating the cost of an eye glasses sleeve because it has industructable saddle stitching. It's not like a bifold wallet NEEDS to be strong enough to keep me from falling off a horse like saddle stitched stuff is designed to.

Well put.

[YinTx]

I am sensing a red herring.  Question is, should someone who machine stitches call something handmade?  When we discuss whether or not the customer will pay for the hand stitching, and then substituting the machine stitching for the hand stitch because the customer will not, does not answer the question.

If you study and apply the continuous process of improvement (kaizen), you work to eliminate waste (muda).  One of those wastes you may recall is incorrect processing.  One way to identify that is to see what a customer will pay for.  If a customer won't pay for hand stitching or skiving by round knife, you should not be doing it.  Hence no eyeglasses sleeve or dopp kit needs to be saddle stitched for indestructible qualities. No disagreement from me.

Even to some extent, you will not get disagreement from me if you machine stitch and call it hand crafted.

Where you will get disagreement from me is when one markets to one's customers an item as hand stitched or saddle stitched when it is clearly machine stitched.  A deceiving tactic I have seen more than once, where the individual selling the item is banking on the buyer not knowing the difference.  Not cool to the customer, not cool to the other craftsmen who are doing the saddle stitching, and able to market it to a customer base that is willing to pay for the difference due to aesthetics, strength, or sheer desire to say they had something hand stitched for them.  This is like saying an item is hand tooled leather when it has been embossed.

Whether or not machine stitching requires skill is also a red herring.  Yes machine stitching does require skill.  Does that mean you can call it a hand stitched or saddle stitched item?  I would say no.

"Handmade" is difficult to quantify.  Thus the ability to answer the question "should someone who machine stitches call something handmade?" is equally difficult  if not impossible to answer.  Thus, those willing to market machine stitched as handmade will meet little resistance, at least from me, even if I feel it to be misleading.  Market machine stitched items as hand stitched or saddle stitched though, and I'll call you out.

If you want to say you fed an item into a machine by hand, I'd still argue the point.  https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/hand-stitched

states "stitched by hand rather than machine."

If you want to be strict about it, "handmade" is defined as made with tools and not machines.  I'd say a sewing machine is a... well, a machine!  https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/handmade

My .02 input to the conversation, worth as they say, the price paid, and only intended for conversation.

YinTx

[YinTx]

BTW, I failed to mention, but that "Artisanal Firewood"  made my day!  I want his customers.. willing to pay over $400 for kindling.   sellin the sizzle, sellin the sizzle!

YinTx

[Dun]

All very good points yin, I was just bringing up the point of assigning values and price tags is not as clear cut as to be defined in how something was stitched.

That "saddle stitching should always be priced more than machine stitching" may not always apply.

Not where the topic started but I saw enough of that subject change to put together 2 cents of my own.

[YinTx]

31 minutes ago, Dun said:

That "saddle stitching should always be priced more than machine stitching" may not always apply.

 

This is true for more reasons than one.  And one of the reasons why I will be machine stitching more in the future.

YinTx

[robs456]

5 hours ago, Dun said:

It's not like a bifold wallet NEEDS to be strong enough to keep me from falling off a horse like saddle stitched stuff is designed to.

Actually, the number one complaint I hear from all kinds of people is that their wallet is breaking apart. And it's always the seams, whether it's a cheap Chinese/Indian/whathaveyou or luxuriuos LV wallet.
But I do get your point, it's not safety related like with saddles. Unless you're James Bond or in some kind of a freak accident...