lovetocreate Report post Posted February 8, 2018 Sorry if this has been asked before, I really can't find any reviews/opinions on the Reliable 4200sw or 4400sw walking foot machines. I am considering purchasing one of these two models or the Juki 1541, which I have found reviews on. After talking with someone at a Juki distributor, I found out that they do not recommend that a synchronizor (needle positioner) be put on the the 1541. I think I would find one very helpful, as my home sewing machine have this feature. Initially, I would like to make leather purses, but also am looking for a machine that will be able to go through thicker leather when I progress to making other items in the future. I would appreciate any input. Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
R8R Report post Posted February 8, 2018 Did they give any particular arguments against attaching a positioner to a 1541? I don't see why a Reliable machine would be a more likely candidate. With the right setup and the right motor you can probably attach a positioner to just about any machine. On larger machines you might not be able to go full throttle, as they simply have more inertia and the positioning will not be accurate. At the lower speeds you'd be running for leather it's probably not a big deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
R8R Report post Posted February 8, 2018 Also the Reliable 4200 is a 1541 clone, so if the distributor is correct, you can't put a positioner on that one either. I don't think that is right though. The 4400 is a Mitsubishi clone btw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lovetocreate Report post Posted February 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, R8R said: Did they give any particular arguments against attaching a positioner to a 1541? I don't see why a Reliable machine would be a more likely candidate. With the right setup and the right motor you can probably attach a positioner to just about any machine. On larger machines you might not be able to go full throttle, as they simply have more inertia and the positioning will not be accurate. At the lower speeds you'd be running for leather it's probably not a big deal. Thank you for replying. I talked with someone who works in the NJ distribution center, he told me no, that they don't put them on, nor do they recommend it. A head technician I spoke with said that they install it at the facility before they ship them out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lovetocreate Report post Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, R8R said: Also the Reliable 4200 is a 1541 clone, so if the distributor is correct, you can't put a positioner on that one either. I don't think that is right though. The 4400 is a Mitsubishi clone btw. Thank you for your reply. I spoke with a technician at Reliable in Canada, he said that they install the positioner before they send them out (so they are sanctioned by Reliable)... Juki does not approve them according to the rep at the distribution center. Interesting..... Edited February 8, 2018 by lovetocreate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yetibelle Report post Posted February 8, 2018 I think we should take a moment to define what a "electronic needle positioner" does. In the most basic sense it allows you to program repetitive work-flows. So you place your item under the needle and press the button and it drops the foot and needle sews/backstitch sews 10 more inches backstitch, lift foot cut thread move on to the next piece. This can save a lot of time if you are making 50-100 pieces at once. This Pfaff 2545 has this built-in, plus it has larger bobbins. Some other "EPS" systems setups essentially do the same thing but you can change the patterns and stitch style (if you have zig-zag) and get really complex fork-flows to the point it is automated and you don't even need to guide the project the machine will do all the work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
R8R Report post Posted February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Yetibelle said: I think we should take a moment to define what a "electronic needle positioner" does. In the most basic sense it allows you to program repetitive work-flows. So you place your item under the needle and press the button and it drops the foot and needle sews/backstitch sews 10 more inches backstitch, lift foot cut thread move on to the next piece. This can save a lot of time if you are making 50-100 pieces at once. This Pfaff 2545 has this built-in, plus it has larger bobbins. Some other "EPS" systems setups essentially do the same thing but you can change the patterns and stitch style (if you have zig-zag) and get really complex fork-flows to the point it is automated and you don't even need to guide the project the machine will do all the work. That is a machine with all the bells and whistles and the correct motor contoller to operate the backtack, trimmer etc. I think we are talking about just the needle positioner device and slightly better than basic motor that has this option, nothing more. I would think most any machine that can accept the bushing screwed into the main shaft could accept the positioner, (as long as there is room to mount it solidly) then it's a matter of how good is your motor and what speeds are you running. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lovetocreate Report post Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) Thank you for the information Yetibelle. What I am referring to simply returns the needle to a full up or down position with a slight tap of the foot pedal. I have this option in my home sewing machines. Some have called it a synchronizer and others a needle positioner. Edited February 8, 2018 by lovetocreate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Techsew Ron Report post Posted February 8, 2018 4 hours ago, lovetocreate said: After talking with someone at a Juki distributor, I found out that they do not recommend that a synchronizor (needle positioner) be put on the the 1541. I think I would find one very helpful, as my home sewing machine have this feature. There's no reason why one wouldn't be able to install a needle position motor on either machine. Could be that the dealer simply doesn't want to. You should have them do it before shipping it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted February 8, 2018 When I bought one of my servos I bought a needle positioner as well (seemed like a good idea at the time). I tried it, of course, but soon took it off as I found that with the slow speeds used for sewing leather it wasn't really needed (and, in truth) I found it a bit of a nuisance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lovetocreate Report post Posted February 8, 2018 Thank you for replying Techsew Ron. Is there a difference in functionality between an added on needle positioner and one integrated such as on the Techsew 1660? I ( love the swing down roller edge guide and laser feature on the 1660, unfortunately, out of my price range right now). Thank you, dikman, for replying. I called a different Juki dealer just a bit ago to ask about adding a needle positioner and he said the same as you - it was a more of a pain than a help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeymender Report post Posted February 9, 2018 Using a needle positioner should be dictated by the work being done. I have them on all my machines and really could not get along very well without them. I sew at very slow speeds, but the work is very precise and the positioner is a great help in maintaining things where I need them to be as I stop and go. Not having to be concerned about where the needle will be when I stop sewing allows me to be fully focused on the work and not the operation of the machine. Just my .02 cents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lovetocreate Report post Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Hockeymender said: Using a needle positioner should be dictated by the work being done. I have them on all my machines and really could not get along very well without them. I sew at very slow speeds, but the work is very precise and the positioner is a great help in maintaining things where I need them to be as I stop and go. Not having to be concerned about where the needle will be when I stop sewing allows me to be fully focused on the work and not the operation of the machine. Just my .02 cents. What machines do you have? I'll be stitching at slow speeds and like the idea that it can be set to stop in a needle down position. Originally I was sure that I wanted one already on or the ability to put one on the machine I'll be purchasing, but then several people have said they don't like them. . I only have room for one more machine, so I am trying to make the right decision! Any other input on the reliable machines , specifically the 4200sw or 4400sw? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brmax Report post Posted February 9, 2018 The 4200 looks to be a juki 1541 clone and so, im sure would be a nice choice. I would suggest “ if “ your intent is leather sewing. The speed reduction pulley be purchased as a best first initial investment. Additionaly a tiny led light w/magnet fastening, mounting right next to needle. If i can see the stitch i can kickback and guide pretty easy. Another for that model is a couple extra 3 bobbin caps/or cases, one for spare setup and others for another size thread, tension adjusted. Good luck on your new machine Floyd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregg From Keystone Sewing Report post Posted February 9, 2018 17 hours ago, Techsew Ron said: There's no reason why one wouldn't be able to install a needle position motor on either machine. Could be that the dealer simply doesn't want to. You should have them do it before shipping it out. My thinking as well, and I'm sure they are referring to the Relaible SewQuiet 6000 digital brushless servo motor. We'll put this 6000SQ on any machine people want as long as the motor is correct for the machine. with the Sync installed, you can ALWAYS go in and cancel it out in the motor's on board parameter settings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Techsew Ron Report post Posted February 9, 2018 16 hours ago, lovetocreate said: Thank you for replying Techsew Ron. Is there a difference in functionality between an added on needle positioner and one integrated such as on the Techsew 1660? I ( love the swing down roller edge guide and laser feature on the 1660, unfortunately, out of my price range right now). On the Techsew 1660 Pro package we add a needle position motor but can also do so on the regular package - same functionality on both. Ron Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lovetocreate Report post Posted February 9, 2018 Thank you everyone for your input and responses! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keithski122 Report post Posted February 9, 2018 I have a positioner on my juki 563 used for car upholstery and love the fact the needle stops in the lower postion.I've got it set so it stops just after the needle starts going upwards so the stitch has formed, I can stop, knee lift the foot a little, turn the leather then carry on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
backyardcnc Report post Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) I have needle positioners on 3 of my main machines and one of those is a 1541S clone, it works awesome. Eventually every machine I have will have a servo with needle positioning. Once you get used to them you don't want to stitch without them! Gerald Edited February 16, 2018 by backyardcnc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VictoriaOMeara Report post Posted March 12, 2019 Hi... I'm new to industrial sewing. I just recently bought the Juki 1541s with the reliable 6000sm with needle positioner. I'm having a hecka time setting the motor to the desired needle postion. Following the motor manual is getting me nowhere. Watching videos (can't find any for my machine set up) getting me nowhere. I'm frustrated and seeking help. Does ANYONE know how to set up this dag gum thing to actually work? Thank you. Victoria Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted March 12, 2019 Have you checked out the following video, it my offer so help in setting the servo motor even through it is for a Juki 8700. kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
