what machine to buy

[aguwa]

Hello everyone thank`s for letting me join I live in wakefield ma usa . I have  always tinkerd with leather, basic dog collars with rivets anyway I decided I am going to get a leather machine , I plan on sewing heavy leather bags #2 Latigo leather 7-8 oz also shooting slings out of 9-10 0z. Latigo leather and such  and bags out of softer leather as well also heavy double layer veg tan belts out of belt blanks , also wallets and what ever else I can come up with , I do have a singer year 1948 model 201-2 for lighter stuff so my question is do I get the juki 1508N or the juki 1508 H  these are the two machines I picked out after a couple of days on internet  1508 goes from #46 - #138 and the 1508H goes from #69 - #207 thread  were do I need to be I`m leaning on the 1508H but not sure if thats just the man in me lol , I will probably be getting a cowboy 3200 or 4500 in future , so  now you know what I have what I want next and were I`m gonna end , Any suggestions that would help me make my mind up would be appreciated

[Northmount]

@aguwa Really, six posts!  Please only click on the submit/post button once and wait for the server to respond.  Could be a slow network connections, slow device browser, busy server, etc.  All good things take time.  I'm deleting the other posts.

Tom

[aguwa]

Thank you for deleting them yes I figured it out , Just wait lol it takes time , I got it 

[kgg]

Hi aguwa,

I am going to suggest that you consider the Juki DNU -1541S (S denotes safety clutch mechanism) rather then the Juki 1508. There is a cost difference of about $1000 Canadian or approximately $700 US and the differences between the two series of machines from my investigating was minor. The big difference for me was the Juki 1541s is still made in Japan where as the 1508 now is made in China.

Kgg

 

[Uwe]

Just get a 441 class machine like the Cowboy 4500 and a nice flatbed attachment first. You may find it'll do everything you want to do. They're not much more expensive than the Juki flatbeds you're looking at.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Uwe

[Rolandranch]

I have the CB4500 and it has sewn through 1" of stacked leather. The Enduro servo motor I got with it is cheap so I am upgrading to a better motor. The machine is great and so far I have not had any issues with it. I hear that the cobra machines are almost the same as the cowboy machines.I would have originally gotten a smaller machine but now I'm glad I got the 4500 because it can do heavier work that I had not intended on doing earlier when I got it. I like getting quality tools so I only have to get them once... just don't get something cheap and be the guy with ten machines and none working.  

Ryan

[Matt S]

40 minutes ago, Rolandranch said:

just don't get something cheap and be the guy with ten machines and none working.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Mind you, I'm only up to 7, two do things that a 4500 can't, and most of them work just fine...

[Rolandranch]

25 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Hey, I resemble that remark! Mind you, I'm only up to 7, two do things that a 4500 can't, and most of them work just fine...

You mean there's something my 4500 CAN'T do??? Am I missing out on something?  Hey, if your machines work then more power to you... Are you sure you need ALL 7?  

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

6 minutes ago, Rolandranch said:

You mean there's something my 4500 CAN'T do??? Am I missing out on something?  Hey, if your machines work then more power to you... Are you sure you need ALL 7?  

I'm sure I don't NEED ALL 16 of mine, but I like old iron. No, they don't all sew right now, but they will some day, provided I live long enough.  I guarantee you there are things some of these old machines that are made to be harness stitchers and not just an "overgrown home sewing machine" (not my original term. . . I stole it) can do that the 4500's cannot.  And don't be offended, because I have a 4500, and I use it often, but no machine can do everything.  It just depends on what a person wants to do and where their priorities lie. 

[Matt S]

5 minutes ago, Rolandranch said:

You mean there's something my 4500 CAN'T do??? Am I missing out on something? 

Well one is a craptacular Chinese patcher which cost less than a servo motor. The other "unique capability" machine is a feed-up-the-arm zig-zag so don't feel bad, very few of these are around (probably cos nobody wants one). I'm sure your 4500 takes up less space than a single one of my 7.

Quote

 Hey, if your machines work then more power to you... Are you sure you need ALL 7?  

Now you're starting to sound like my girlfriend! Okay so I have two flat-bed upholstery-weight machines with almost identical capabilities so I guess I could get rid of one. And maybe I don't need a flat-bed Singer 45 when my BUSM No6 does everything it can and more... This is dangerous. You'll be telling me I don't need so many guns or knives or tents soon.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

1 minute ago, Matt S said:

Well one is a craptacular Chinese patcher which cost less than a servo motor. The other "unique capability" machine is a feed-up-the-arm zig-zag so don't feel bad, very few of these are around (probably cos nobody wants one). I'm sure your 4500 takes up less space than a single one of my 7.

Now you're starting to sound like my girlfriend! Okay so I have two flat-bed upholstery-weight machines with almost identical capabilities so I guess I could get rid of one. And maybe I don't need a flat-bed Singer 45 when my BUSM No6 does everything it can and more... This is dangerous. You'll be telling me I don't need so many guns or knives or tents soon.

I'm sure you don't really need that No. 6. . . I'd give it a good forever home and you could come visit it anytime you wanted.  Oh wait, you're across the pond. Dammit.

[Matt S]

6 minutes ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

I'm sure you don't really need that No. 6. . . I'd give it a good forever home and you could come visit it anytime you wanted.  Oh wait, you're across the pond. Dammit.

You know what, I might be persuaded to swap it for a 441-type machine. I've only found one dealer over here that sells Chinese 441s and they want £4k+ 20% tax for a 4500. That's about what a genuine used Juki goes for. It'd actually be cheaper to have one shipped from Toledo and pay import tax as well as the 20% sales tax.

On the flip side dealers ask about £2000-2500 for No.6 machines on treadle stands, and they can be got for a lot less if you're willing to risk the guys on ePray flogging "Uncle Grandad's old machine". I've noticed two fail to sell for £1500 in the last couple months. Part of it is that safety inspectors mostly don't have experience operating anything more than a clipboard and have the legal power to shut down a workplace at the drop of a hard hat. Most businesses just can't afford the hassle. One-man-bands don't have to comply with safety regs but as soon as you employ the neighbour kid to click you out a few bits on Saturday mornings the whole operation is technically liable, even if it's you who does the stupid thing and tries to find out what a 30lb balance wheel tastes like at 150RPM.

[Constabulary]

You can buy 441 clones from Hightex in Germany from Sieck.de or Frank Brunnet http://hightex-germany.de/

No import taxes since the UK (still) is EU member

[Rolandranch]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

This is dangerous. You'll be telling me I don't need so many guns or knives or tents soon.

Don't worry. I understand the gun thing. I didn't know a guy could have too many guns. Keep your guns and knives. 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

You know what, I might be persuaded to swap it for a 441-type machine.

Double dammit!  Provided your 6 isn't 3/4 worn out, I'd take that trade in a heartbeat!  But I'm having trouble figuring out how to ship a creaser! 

[Hockeymender]

4 hours ago, Rolandranch said:

Don't worry. I understand the gun thing. I didn't know a guy could have too many guns. Keep your guns and knives. 

Amen to that!

[RockyAussie]

9 hours ago, Uwe said:

Just get a 441 class machine like the Cowboy 4500 and a nice flatbed attachment first. You may find it'll do everything you want to do. They're not much more expensive than the Juki flatbeds you're looking at.

I spent near to an hour trying to work out how to say something along that line. Given the range of products you mentioned like dog collars and so on I would spend my money on a 441 Class machine first. Although I would not use it for doing wallets normally, I have done so and the results turned out well. The below wallet was done with 20m thread (138). If you track down where to get this needle plate and dog foot combination you can get down to upholstery weight and without any other changes other than thread tension and a little foot pressure go up to some very heavy weight leather as in this linesman's pouch which is about 3/4" thick. It also allows you to get up very close to the edge.  The extra foot lift and capacity over the 3200 is worth spending the bit extra on. Lastly ....I do have some flat beds but they are there for the ladies to use.

[aguwa]

thanks for all the replies and suggestions , a lot of you suggested I get a cowboy 4500 and I will first I am looking for a machine to do just a bit lighter stuff that`s why I was deciding between the 1541 -1508 -1508H  so I think I settled for the 1508 gonna get it Tuesday from a local shop well 1.5 hours away close enough, who matched the web prices for me he also has in stock . I figure the close by help offers from him might just come in handy , then back to work get some more play money put aside and get the CB4500 they say the 1508 takes thread from #46-#138 the 1508H goes from #69--#207 the cowboy starts at #138  so I thought the 1508 was the choice I`m gonna do something Tuesday when I see them all lol I`m not getting the cowboy just yet gonna get a serger with the 1508 or whatever I decide tue. Oh ya and a skiver , so cowboy is on the wait list lol, He also said he has a bunch of LU 563`s he wanted to show me. thank`s again everyone 

[Wizcrafts]

@aguwa;

The actual Juki model number you are looking for is the LU-1508NH

[ZigZag]

On 08/06/2018 at 7:22 PM, Matt S said:

You know what, I might be persuaded to swap it for a 441-type machine. I've only found one dealer over here that sells Chinese 441s and they want £4k+ 20% tax for a 4500. That's about what a genuine used Juki goes for. It'd actually be cheaper to have one shipped from Toledo and pay import tax as well as the 20% sales tax.

On the flip side dealers ask about £2000-2500 for No.6 machines on treadle stands, and they can be got for a lot less if you're willing to risk the guys on ePray flogging "Uncle Grandad's old machine". I've noticed two fail to sell for £1500 in the last couple months. Part of it is that safety inspectors mostly don't have experience operating anything more than a clipboard and have the legal power to shut down a workplace at the drop of a hard hat. Most businesses just can't afford the hassle. One-man-bands don't have to comply with safety regs but as soon as you employ the neighbour kid to click you out a few bits on Saturday mornings the whole operation is technically liable, even if it's you who does the stupid thing and tries to find out what a 30lb balance wheel tastes like at 150RPM.

Hey Matt, I bought a typical 441, which is excellent quality. I paid £3000 with servo motor and speed reducer all delivered by an engineer to demo it working etc. One or two of the US brands are relabelled Typical machines I’m told. 

[RockyAussie]

10 hours ago, aguwa said:

I figure the close by help offers from him might just come in handy , then back to work get some more play money put aside and get the CB4500 they say the 1508 takes thread from #46-#138 the 1508H goes from #69--#207 the cowboy starts at #138  so I thought the 1508 was the choice

Just to let you know the Cowboy CB 4500 according to the page on http://www.tolindsewmach.com/cb4500.html

states this below

Needle: 7x3 or 794: #18-#27

Thread Sizes: #69 - #415

I haven't tried taking the thread that thin myself as I have a few other machines that can handle that size fine such as Pfaff 335, an Adler 69 and a stack of others, but I would think maybe have a talk with Bob there first myself. I would still think a cylinder machine would be a better starting off machine myself. 

[aguwa]

Thank`s everyone that`s some good info I will strongly think about all that on Tuesday when I`m at local shop  unless  , Hey Wizcrafts sounds like you might have everything I`m looking for.For sale that could be shipped to Wakefield MA.01880 USA ? I`m not sure on the policies here can I give you my phone number to call me and talk about what you might have ?

[Wizcrafts]

15 minutes ago, aguwa said:

Hey Wizcrafts sounds like you might have everything I`m looking for.For sale that could be shipped to Wakefield MA.01880 USA ? I`m not sure on the policies here can I give you my phone number to call me and talk about what you might have ?

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't sell sewing machines, other than a couple I have used in my shop and want to replace. I make leather things and sew for a living (when I'm not onstage playing Country Music).

You may have gotten the wrong idea because I posted a link to the Juki LU-1508NH, which you were referring to as the 1508H. This is a high end, expensive professional sewing machine for production use. It has more clearance in the hook that allows it to sew with #207 thread on top and bottom. It also uses a slightly longer System 190 needle that allows it to have a 2mm longer up/down stroke than the DNU-1541, and a correspondingly higher foot lift. This makes it capable of sewing up to 7/16" of material. They also have true rectangular feed dog motion, which is unusual in walking foot machines.

Note: some dealers modify their LU-1508NH to use the standard System 135x16 and 135x17 needles, which reduces the sewing thickness back to 3/8 inch. Ask before you buy.

If you don't expect to sew over 3/8 of an inch using #138 thread, any modern walking foot machine will do just a good a job at half the price, or less. If you anticipate needing a higher sewing capacity or thicker thread, these machines won't do the job.

[aguwa]

Yes I got confused lot of hours on boat been fishing tired  thought you were talking about you sorry lol thank`s for all your help 

[Wizcrafts]

7 minutes ago, aguwa said:

Yes I got confused lot of hours on boat been fishing tired  thought you were talking about you sorry lol thank`s for all your help 

Some of the dealers who advertise or assist on this forum can get you a Juki LU-1508NH and set it up for your requirements. Maybe even find a clone that costs less!