CB3200 questions - considering refund

[BenR]

All,

I'd really appreciate some quick, constructive feedback on normal operation of the Cowboy 3200 (and other Cowboy machines I'd imagine would be applicable)

It's a long story, but suffice to say I just received my machine, and instantly had issues with it which required repair.  The vendor walked me through the repair and gave me the option to return the unit for a refund if I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself.  

I was able to complete the repairs, but having the machine partially apart, and knowing some strange ways I thought my machine was working gave me additional concerns.  I raised these to the vendor and was told they didn't have time to reply to my 4 paragraph question and to just return whole unit for refund, no exchange offered.  I think he was tired of the inquisition and wanted to be done with me

I'm trying to determine if what I think are issues are completely normal, or if I purchased a dud and should get an exchange, or if I should expect issues and not expect customer support trying to retain its customers so should look for a different brand (which I doubt because I've read almost entirely positive reviews of the Cowboy system)

1) How difficult do you find it to rotate the drive wheel by hand?  It's possible for me to drive mine by hand but it is difficult.  I've seen videos online and it typically seems like people don't have much trouble with it.  The repair that I had to do induced a side-load in the drive shaft which I'm wondering if it's normal or not.  If it's not, this could cause excessive early wear on the internal components and I'd probably want to return it.  I ran a small line of stitching on a 1/2" stack of leather and the machine seemed to have no issue with it, so I'm not sure if this is truly an problem or not

2) how difficult do you find it to engage or disengage the presser foot lever?  Mine is quite difficult and sometimes even jams completely.  I cycled about 100 times to try to wear-in the linkages and it helped a bit but still has some difficulties.  Also I usually have to "slam down" the lever to get the foot to come down completely.  If I gently release the lever, the foot will often hang up about half way through its stroke 

3) is the right side foot pedal just to hold up the press foot, not completely lock it in its up position?  Due to the difficulties mentioned in item #2, my pedal is almost useless.  

4) I purchased the "beltmaker's" package and the guide used to gauge the stitch along an edge sits about 1/8"+ above the throat plate.  This means that leather roughly 8oz or less would slip under the guide and make the accessory useless.  I'm wondering if the design is bad, or if mine is bent, or if I'm missing something entirely

Any feedback to help me decide whether to return the machine for a new one, buy a different brand, or be happy with what I have right now would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you

 

 

[Ferg]

BenR,

First of all it appears to me that you have very little first hand experience with sewing machines in general.

Your #1:  The machine has a brake mechanism on it that makes moving with the fly wheel very difficult. You need to press on the left peddle to release the brake, then you can move the fly wheel.

#3:  You release the foot with the lever provided. It will have some resistance, not enough to hinder movement. After releasing the lever you can move the foot up and down with the right peddle, it doesn't lock.

The remainder of your questions suggest that the machine was never prepped at the source or you have been messing with it, not knowing what to do.

I am not trying to belittle you. Simply trying to impress on you that these machines are complicated. Fiddling with them does no good. If the seller is offering to give your money back I see that as the best alternative. He should pay the return freight.

The Cowboy is an excellent machine. I have a 3200. The problems you are having need to be addressed by a professional.

Did you buy this machine from one of the CowBoy Distributors that run ads at the top of the forum page? Why do I feel as though you didn't.

Did you oil this machine before beginning to sew?

Perhaps WIZ will jump in here.

Ferg

Edited June 16, 2018 by Ferg

[Wizcrafts]

My answers are as follows, based on my personal experience with both Cowboy and Cobra 441 clones.

Question 1, you are concerned about how hard it is to turn the wheel. This is because of the 3:1 speed reducer between the machine and motor. Going from bottom to top is easy. Going from the top down is not. The motors currently in use have a cork brake that is engaged until you press down on the speed pedal. It disengages when you press on the big pedal. It stays off until you take your foot off, or heel down. If the motor switch is on, you can feather the pedal with your toe to help turn the hand wheel.

Question 2 deals with the presser bar sticking in the up position. This can be caused by a slightly off center hole in the pressure adjuster screw. If you just turn the screw slightly with the foot up, it will probably let it drop down. If this is the cause and you find a best position, use the locknut to keep the pressure adjuster in that position. This makes it a crap shoot if you are constantly changing foot pressure, as I do. I just used a round file to open up the diameter of the slot a little bit. Now, my presser foot never sticks in the raised position. Oil that sucker!

Question 3: The right foot lift floor pedal is used to temporarily lift the feet. It is not locking at the top. For that, use the hand lift lever with the ball knob. Make sure that the lift chain from the machine to the pedal has a very little slack when the feet are lowered. I set mine to about 1/2 inch free motion with the feet down.

Question 4: If your edge guide is a swing away guide that slides right and left in a T shaped plate, it should sit at the level of the throat plate when in use. Try loosening the screw on top of the roller to let it drop down, or ask for a replacement guide. It could even be that the T plate for the guide is not perfectly inline, or its mounting screws may have come loose. Tighten the two screws that secure the T plate to the body and see if the edge guide roller comes down.

If you bought the drop down edge guide that mounts to the back of the head, it has two set screws that raise or lower it, plus two screws that let it move forward and backward.

I hope this helps.

[RockyAussie]

Firstly I will say that telling us what country and preferably what town area you are located could help. Some members like myself are willing to drop in and have a look. I did that just this last week with a Saddler acquaintance that had just got himself a second hand "Stallion" which in many respects the same as my Cowboy machine. One big difference was that it is on a clutch driven motor and he was now used to using a servo motor. One of the things I found that suprised me for an 80 year old saddler was that he had little idea of how to adjust the foot pressure. It was wound down that tight that he could not get the machine to go along slowly and he had trouble getting the foot to lift so that he could turn corners. I backed of the clutch on the motor and wound off the foot pressure and he is happily back making up a heap of holsters he could not stitch before. Secondly-

a couple of pictures that show the top for the foot pressure and the back where the tension discs are could help as well. I found similar problems getting caught up with the foot lift on mine when I got it and found that the spike that disengages the tension discs was way out of alignment and I had to do quite a few adjustment and shaving to get it behaving nicely. If nothing in this area seems to be the cause it may have a bent shaft on need some other adjustments.

1 hour ago, BenR said:

4) I purchased the "beltmaker's" package and the guide used to gauge the stitch along an edge sits about 1/8"+ above the throat plate.  This means that leather roughly 8oz or less would slip under the guide and make the accessory useless.  I'm wondering if the design is bad, or if mine is bent, or if I'm missing something entirely

Yes it is a bad design. I put a brass washer above the roller to get it down lower and it works good now. Not the best pic but note how it now nearly touches the needle plate.

If this is your first machine and your not very mechanical I would recommend getting someone who is familiar with them to have a look at it with you.

 

[Northmount]

IP address indicates the OP is in the Reno Nevada area. 

Tom

[BenR]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Yes I am in Reno NV.  

I did buy the machine from one of the few US reps, but didn't want to mention the name because I'm not wanting to slander anyone, especially since I don't have all the information I'd like to.  I am a hair upset with the response I received from the vendor "not having time to respond to my questions", but not to the point where I'd want to risk someone else in the future browsing through this thread and getting the wrong idea about the company

I did oil the machine prior to first use and then again shortly after running it through it's first strokes

Ferg, I do appreciate your insight, but I did leave out a substantial amount of information as to reduce the length of an already windy post.  Just so you know, I'm a mechanical engineer by trade and work with equipment much more complicated than a sewing machine for nearly 15 years.  Admittedly I am very new to this type of sewing machine, but my momma taught me how to sew when I was a pre-teen so I understand generally how they work.  Additionally, through experience, and the boldly highlighted warranty text, I know not to fiddle with things unless I absolutely know what I'm doing.  

For everyone's reference, my initial issue was during the first day of use.  I was setting up the bobbin winding feature when I heard a pin-drop sound from within the base.  I opened the access panels and found a small flathead screw laying on the table inside.  I looked around all the linkages and could not find an area that was obvious that a screw had fallen from.  I contacted the vendor and was told that must have been a spare screw that they dropped and didn't recover during the setup process.  I was assured there was no issue with the machine.  The next day I'm winding another bobbin and hear another drop.  Removing the panels I find an identical screw at the bottom of the base.  I contact the vendor again, who then launches an investigation at their shop and found it was two screws that hold the side plate (part number 7441-02-0110) to the feed cam.  This plate holds the forked connecting rod true to the cam.  Without the keeper plate secured, the forked connecting rod wanted to ride about half way off the cam, or approx 1/4" out of position to the right.  I removed the drive belt and hand cranked the drive wheel to make sure the fork stayed in the same position...and it did.  The instructions received from the vendor required that I remove the drive wheel to be able to screw in the bolts which pin the keeper plate to the cam and hold the fork in place.  Once I had done this, the plate compressed the forked con-rod over 1/4" to the left.  This induces a frictional drag on the drive system.  When I reinstalled the drive wheel, I noticed it was significantly harder to turn now.  This is prior to reinstalling the drive belt. This is why I'm asking the question.  If there is abnormal side load from the forked con-rod to the drive axis causing unusual drag on the system, the components will most likely wear prematurely.  If this is common based on the design of the machine and everyone has a hard time turning their drive wheel, then I wouldn't feel so uneasy about it as its possible to be a design flaw without a high statistical failure mode

Wiz and Rocky, thanks for the input!  For the guide roller, I'll use a washer as suggested.  That's a great idea!  I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some design intent.  For the presser foot I'll work on the adjuster screw and slotted hole.  It is definitely sufficiently oiled at the moment 

Thanks again for your time everyone!  I really appreciate your input.  Please let me know if you have any other ideas based on the additional info listed above regarding the side load on the cam from forcing the connecting rod fork 

 

[RockyAussie]

The hand wheel should not be difficult to turn and I would be concerned that the side load may mean that the shaft or cam is not secured in the right place. I would not turn the machine over any further due to it creating more damage. The fact that the screws came out is not a good omen. I would be surprised that they would not offer a another machine in replacement. I would be keen to get that machine back quickly if I were them. The Cowboys do not have a lot of line up marks as do the Juki and some others and reseting the timing and such can take a lot of time if you don't have clear instructions. I would return it and try to be understanding that this would not normally happen. For the price they are an excellent machine normally.

[DonInReno]

Personally I'd try to sort out the issues and not return the head unless absolutely necessary - the only person that wins is the shipper.  Obviously either the fork is a little wide, the plate is somehow off kilter or the machining of the cam width is tight - I'd measure the fork and let the dealer check if it's in spec or if he needs to send a replacement. Heck maybe the best fix is a simple shim under the retaining plate. I'm sure they'll work with you to sort things out.  These are a tremendous value once the kinks are worked out, which is why we're driving a lot of Cowbow, Artisan and Cobras rather than Juki's.

I don't own a cowboy, but also live in Reno and you're welcome to look at my 8 yr old Artisan 3200 (roughly the same machine) to judge how stiff this type of sewer is - everything is quite a bit stiffer than any domestic or upholstery size commercial machine.   The hand lever for the presser foot is so stiff it's a chore to cycle - it just is what it is.  Your motor is different than the servo on mine but it does take some effort to overcome the resistance of that 3:1 reducer. 

On your edge guide, look closely at the threaded shaft the nut screws down on - at least with the one I have there are two flats that slide between the rails of the part screwed to the machine.  If the flats aren't aligned with the grove it wouldn't clamp down fully and could rise up 1/16" to 1/8", but mainly it would be loosey goosey and not tighten down (the bolt is upside down in the pic).

Hang in there - you're almost home free.