Juki 1341 questions

[TopHat]

So my wife and I have been perusing the threads for a while, and we have sort of settled around the Juki 1341 as the leading candidate for a medium duty handbag/tote/purse machine. She is going to start working with heavier cottons like denim, canvas/waxed canvas, and a couples layers of 6oz or less leather. The other candidate we are strongly considering is the Cobra Class 26 for a cylinder arm machine. 

Probably the main reason the Juki leads is that we live very close to a great Juki dealer and support will be first rate if there's ever a problem. He will set the machine  up with the speed reducer etc like my wife would like, deliver it to our home, give instruction, etc. One issue we can't seem to figure out is whether this machine has accessories for it that will allow for smooth feed dogs etc for working with leather, or if its generally not necessary on this class of machine. 

One of the few complaints I've ever seen about the Class 20/26, which has a smooth feed system built in, is that if you feed anything other than leather or maybe a canvas through it, it doesn't do as well. I'm sort of worried about having that problem in reverse, with the 1341. 

I've seen that other machines, like the Cowboy 4500, which is a heavier class machine, has vendor support for both types of accessories so you can feed practically anything through it as long as you change out the feet/feed dogs. Its unclear to me whether these things exist for the medium duty machines. 

My wife also does upholstery work and so we're looking at a 1508 to pair with this machine. The 1508 we are also hoping will handle leather projects that lend themselves to flat table work. So we do have a little flexibility on the setup for each. 

One other thought that we had was that we could get the 1508 for flat work and basically set it up with 92 thread, and then perhaps get something heavy like a CB4500/Class 4 and set it up for 138 or 207 thread, so the machines would cover a range of work basically as thick as we'd ever go, but we are also a little worried that the CB4500/Class 4 might be a tad overkill for bagmaking and maybe wouldn't be utilized? 

I was hoping someone would chime in who perhaps had experience with one of these machines and the clones and let us know what might be some good thoughts for us to further consider. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by TopHat

[kgg]

I would go with the Juki line of machines particularly if you have a excellent / service dealer close to your location. However before deciding take a couple samples in and run them through to see what machine or machines will do the job plus more for the future as well see what accessories that are available like feet /binders/folders. You did mention the Juki flatbed 1508 which is a very very nice machine but don't count out the 1541S. There has been discussion on the forum and some people feel the difference in ability versus cost difference have or would have chosen the 1541S. I chose the 1541S and for what I do it is an excellent workhorse. 

kgg

 

[JJN]

I hope I can jump in on this thread. I am picking up a Juki LS-1341 next week and would like to know what binders are available for this machine and any experiences or  recommendations folks here at LW might have about binding on this machine.

I also have a Juki flatbed 1541s and can attest to @kgg comments that it is a fantastic machine and I have no regrets buying it.

[Uwe]

The Cobra Class 26 is really just a copy of the Juki LS-341, the predecessor of the Juki LS-1341. There's probably nothing wrong with the Cobra Class 26, but there's also no point in pretending it's anything other than a brown copy of the Juki original.

Since the Juki LS-1341 is a current production machine, parts and accessories should be plentiful and readily available from any Juki dealer. Hopefully this includes both serrated and smooth feed dogs - your Juki dealer will know. Presser feet of any shape and form are readily available at various quality and price points from many vendors.  The Juki LS-341 and LS-1341 use standard Singer 111W style feet which is great if you want to have a large assortment of specialty feet for piping etc. without breaking the bank.

I don't have a Juki LS-1341, but my Juki LS-341 is among my favorite designs, and I'd hope the Juki LS-1341 improves that design even more.

Binding on a Juki LS-1341 is possible, but the Juki binding parts kit (part# 214-34857) to do it properly runs upwards of $400 and that's before you buy an actual tape folder.

Here's a screen shot of the binder options section from the Juki LS-1341 brochure (ls1340.pdf)

  

Here's a picture of the binder kit for the LS-1342 just for reference and to give an idea of how many parts the binding kits contains:

The Juki TSC-441 class (and Cowboy CB-4500 and other clones) are BIG machines and they can be downright intimidating when you sit down in front them. Not everybody gets a warm and fuzzy feeling from these monsters and it may limit willingness to actually use one. Best to try it out in person first. Hopefully your local Juki dealer has a well stocked show room.

Juki also makes a medium-heavy duty cylinder arm machine that is bigger than the Juki LS-1341, but not as big as a Juki TSC-441. This relatively new machine is the Juki LS-2342 (Juki-LS-2342 flyer.pdf) The Juki LS-2342H version goes up to thread size 266. I saw this machine at a trade show and it is very impressive. This might be a good option if it's in your budget (not everybody is looking for the cheapest option, some folks want the best they can afford.) Here's a picture of the Juki LS-2342 that gives a sense of scale:

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Uwe

[TopHat]

14 hours ago, Uwe said:

 

Juki also makes a medium-heavy duty cylinder arm machine that is bigger than the Juki LS-1341, but not as big as a Juki TSC-441. This relatively new machine is the Juki LS-2342 (Juki-LS-2342 flyer.pdf) The Juki LS-2342H version goes up to thread size 266. I saw this machine at a trade show and it is very impressive. This might be a good option if it's in your budget (not everybody is looking for the cheapest option, some folks want the best they can afford.) Here's a picture of the Juki LS-2342 that gives a sense of scale:

 

 

Oh wow, that is a beast. From the spec sheet the H model would seem to be the in between size, going all the way from 69-266. I know my dealer doesn't have one of these on the floor but I sent him an email asking if he can get me a price on this. Can you relay to me what you thought was very impressive about this machine in person? I'm not sure what Juki direct drive is, but it appears it might have a motor mounted in it already? 

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, TopHat said:

I'm not sure what Juki direct drive is, but it appears it might have a motor mounted in it already? 

That is correct. The new top of the line heavy duty Adler machines have a direct drive motor in the body and now Juki is moving in that direction too. This gives the manufacturer total control over sewing direction, speed and needle position without external or third party calculations. There is no doubt that the built-in motor is covered by the Juki dealer's warranty with the original purchaser. It is also possible that said warranty would not follow a used machine to subsequent buyers. This is something to bear in mind if you were to buy such a machine used.

[Constabulary]

wondering how many people will look for replacement motors for these machines in 5 - 10 years... Will there be after market motors - who knows?

[brmax]

Im sure The ball park figure on that newer Juki is in the $7K range for starters. With that Im not qualified to run it 

 

good day

Floyd

[kgg]

The new direct drives remind me of the old singer sewing machines made for home use like some of the 15-91's that had the built in motors that were expensive and hard to replace. As Wiz and Constabulary note that the manufacturer has the control of how the machine should work and will also have control of future replacement motors. I know if I could afford the cost of one of those direct drives I would opt for something else that I had more control over of how it is ran. But I can see why they are going in that direction, manufacturing / shipping cost savings. My question is the new direct drive from Juki made in Japan or China?

[DonInReno]

On July 14, 2018 at 1:22 PM, TopHat said:

...and then perhaps get something heavy like a CB4500/Class 4 and set it up for 138 or 207 thread, so the machines would cover a range of work basically as thick as we'd ever go...

I've done a little canvas work with an artisan 3200 (441 clone with 12" arm) and 138 and 207 thread and it works just fine, but the types of presser feet for these machines that aren't smooth are not as numerous as those for an upholstery machine, although there are plenty of good designs that can be altered if you don't mind tinkering a bit. Even with feet and feed dog very close to your favorite designs these are big machines that aren't quite as user friendly or fast as an upholstery machine.  It's like driving a two ton truck around town - you can do it, but most people wouldn't unless the extra capacity is required. 

Having said that, I think there's never a bad reason to get another machine that fills a gap so it's hard to go wrong with your choices! 

[gottaknow]

I love the Juki direct drive motors. Strong, quiet, no belt slot for an operator to drop all their stuff into the motor guard. I bought 30 machines or so with them 4 years ago, no issues. The Brother direct drives are decent as well. We bought some 7300 series that now have a step motor driving the feed dogs. The machine senses a bump in the sewing and the computer adjusts the feed dogs accordingly. It’s a drop feed machine, but sews at least as well as needle feeds. We’ll use them for binding. The Juki 1341’s are nice. I have 3 at the moment. 

Regards, Eric 

[Constabulary]

No doubt they are great machines and I´m sure so are the new Adlers. But most leather workers (I guess) run a small business or are just Hobbyists where cost efficiency is quite important to make a buck or two. And I´m sure most will run their machine until the end of days (even when written off) for several reasons like: they got used to it, just love vintage machines , have in mind never change a running machine, have no or just a few mechanic skills, or have no "Eric" around and probably have to turn in the machines for service (especially with "fancy bells & whistles" issues) - if so where is the next qualified dealer 10mls away or 100 mls or 1000 mls away?. Lots of things to consider. If you run a big business or even a factory it´s for sure a different story.

Even if I had the money I´m sure I would still stick to vintage machines - just because of the certain something and because most are "quite easy" to maintain by your self.

I´m off topic.... BTT 

[brmax]

I agree with you those choices in cylinder arm machines like 1341 or the 26 are great choices. You sure dont want a dozer doing shovel work. Seen that to many times!

Remember they all can be made great and they all had one for their goal. I thought a bit myself about this and particularly like the access ability of the newer machine insides. And so a 1341 at the moment was my luck and available. Other than that there are few and subtle differences in these newer choices.

To be honest there are 1342 model machines and clones also, or I had seen some a couple years ago. These have an additional neat feature. 

But again the majority of your work obviously sounds like 138 thread and under so good choices you all made. 

The local shop is always a respectable choice to start some level of business with. For sure this can be an advantage with ability to sit in front of a machine for your future use.

The easy usage of a machine choice far outweighs the dusty one in the corner. 

In closing I would respectfully say the flat bed machine needs more conversation  in that the nice efficiencies of a machine “these days” are available to canvas and upholstery that you honestly dont use in leather projects, or I should say you may like but cant have all of them. 

 

Good day

Floyd

Edited July 17, 2018 by brmax

[TopHat]

6 hours ago, brmax said:

 

In closing I would respectfully say the flat bed machine needs more conversation  in that the nice efficiencies of a machine “these days” are available to canvas and upholstery that you honestly dont use in leather projects, or I should say you may like but cant have all of them. 

 

Good day

Floyd

I'm not really sure what you mean by this? Can you expand upon this thought?

 

In other news...

That 1342 is about $6700 according to my dealer. Closer to $9k fully decked out

Edited July 18, 2018 by TopHat

[brmax]

Sure, initially I had thought needle positioning. This feature is great especialy in upholstery and the like. Yet this option has limits of capable usage when reducing the speed of a machine much with pulley reduction systems. Particularly the speeds leatherworkers like to use.  

Theres the top shelf 1541N7 that would be a realy realy nice upholstery setup. And as always the Durkopp machines that, uh well just rule. I can only dream

Anyway the 1508N top loader your considering is nice and the NH is even better. These are a bit tougher machine in my opinion relating to their needle and hook arrangement. They are just made to punch holes effeciently ( i dont really have to make an opinion on that, the price should be a tell ) as you well know.  

Tip: Put the extreme smallest motor pulley on with all your servos and try that and have fun!

 

Floyd

[TopHat]

Good points. Do folks tend to put speed reducers on cylinder arms more or is that a thing that's done alot with flat beds as well?

[brmax]

With projects in leather I would think as much as flat bed machines.  In all honesty there are so many leather Pros on the site here that have been doing these task so much more than me, I have to ask them to cover that better. 

I feel it still is the very slow speed that many projects require that pushes one to consider this option.  Theres no doubt more torque and thats a plus in starting, but my servos gave a slight grunt from a stop but marched confidently no problem. Still a bit more torque is a wise motor maintenance thought. 

I would like to try one in the next few weeks on a cylinder arm. 

 

Good day

Floyd

[shoepatcher]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:25 PM, TopHat said:

I'm not really sure what you mean by this? Can you expand upon this thought?

 

In other news...

That 1342 is about $6700 according to my dealer. Closer to $9k fully decked out

that sounds high for a 1342 without toys.

[Uwe]

That $6,700 price tag is likely referring to the new Juki LS-2342, but a typo crept into the model number. It happens . . . a lot.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Uwe

[Wizcrafts]

On 7/17/2018 at 9:25 PM, TopHat said:

I'm not really sure what you mean by this? Can you expand upon this thought?

 

In other news...

That 1342 is about $6700 according to my dealer. Closer to $9k fully decked out

That sounds right and puts it in competition with the Adler 869 that our advertiser Weaver Leather sells for about $8500.

[R8R]

On 7/14/2018 at 7:22 PM, Uwe said:

 

Here's a picture of the binder kit for the LS-1342 just for reference and to give an idea of how many parts the binding kits contains:

 

 

Found a vid of this binder kit in action on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkDIe08nejz/?taken-by=javran

Pretty sweet! Emailed them and they said the kit can be ordered from MJ Foley but it takes awhile.

Now a question - how different (if at all) are the various clones of the LS-1341 compared to the original Juki? Would the Juki binder kit work on a clone machine? There are some nice clones that include the vertical lift adjustment dial that the base model Juki does not have, and they are of course much cheaper. (Like a whole other sewing machine cheaper).

Thoughts? Or would I be inviting disaster trying to make binder kit fit onto a non-Juki machine where they modified the design when they cloned it?

Mainly looking at the Thor GC1341 or maybe the Sewpro.

[brmax]

I dont believe they are much different at all, in their design. It is possible the specifics are not as original, and many times at a start they arent.  

I first notice a clone brand just 2 months after finding a new in box juki1341, it was in a very low price range for the brand.  So with these new far east factories, it maybe worth looking into for your projects. 

At the time the 1342 was really a benefit I thought with the handy top knob for adjustment. I cannot recal the name. 

Thanks for the binder tip. 

 

Good day

Floyd

[JJN]

17 hours ago, R8R said:

Found a vid of this binder kit in action on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkDIe08nejz/?taken-by=javran

Pretty sweet! Emailed them and they said the kit can be ordered from MJ Foley but it takes awhile.

Now a question - how different (if at all) are the various clones of the LS-1341 compared to the original Juki? Would the Juki binder kit work on a clone machine? There are some nice clones that include the vertical lift adjustment dial that the base model Juki does not have, and they are of course much cheaper. (Like a whole other sewing machine cheaper).

Thoughts? Or would I be inviting disaster trying to make binder kit fit onto a non-Juki machine where they modified the design when they cloned it?

Mainly looking at the Thor GC1341 or maybe the Sewpro.

I just contacted MJ Foley about the Juki binder for the 1341 and this is their reply.

" The items on the Juki brochure are discontinued and no longer manufactured.  WE have some generic items available from our catalog, but most often we create custom binders for peoples applications. "

I cannot understand why Juki would discontinue the only binding accessory they make for a currently manufactured machine.

 

 

[R8R]

19 minutes ago, JJN said:

I just contacted MJ Foley about the Juki binder for the 1341 and this is their reply.

" The items on the Juki brochure are discontinued and no longer manufactured.  WE have some generic items available from our catalog, but most often we create custom binders for peoples applications. "

I cannot understand why Juki would discontinue the only binding accessory they make for a currently manufactured machine.

 

 

Well... that's that.

Edited September 19, 2018 by R8R
formatting

[R8R]

Ok so this steers me back to my original plan - a Techsew 2600 with their add-on binder kit. (Juki DSC-246 clone)

Only thing I'd miss out on is the square feed of the 1341 (which is nice), the vertical adjuster dial and a top loader bobbin. The sewing capacity is similar, right around 3/8" with 138 thread.