Is it a good choice? Seiko CH8B cylinder bed

[Ehgreen]

Hi, I have very limited knowledge of machines, hope someone here can help me out, thank you very much for your time.

 

 I mainly use 0.3-1.2cm leather to make Leather bags and small leather accessories, was wondering if Seiko CH8B is the right machine? How is the quality of the machine? Has anyone used it before?

 

Also the seller has been selling the machineAUD$3500 for 3 months but didn’t make it. I just put an offer of $2500, he then asked for $3000, is the price ok? 
 

Pls see description and pics:

 

Extra Heavy walking foot cylinder arm industrial sewing machine
Made in Japan
RRP $8795
Little use
Comes with 8’x4’ table to convert the cylinder bed in to a flat bed sewing machine
 

[aroh99]

This machine looks similar to the 441. If you are not sewing heavy duty items this might not be for you. This machine if for heavy leather like gun belts and holsters. For bags i would recommend a lighter duty cylinder machine. For the price he is asking you can buy a new 441 clone at least in the U.S. im sure you can have one of the big companys that ship to you.  My 2 cents but to each his own.

[Wizcrafts]

We have several industrial sewing machine dealers in Australia who are contributing members in this forum. All of them deal in leather sewing machines.

[Ehgreen]

43 minutes ago, aroh99 said:

This machine looks similar to the 441. If you are not sewing heavy duty items this might not be for you. This machine if for heavy leather like gun belts and holsters. For bags i would recommend a lighter duty cylinder machine. For the price he is asking you can buy a new 441 clone at least in the U.S. im sure you can have one of the big companys that ship to you.  My 2 cents but to each his own.

Hi aroh09, thanks for your feedback, do you have any recommendations for brand or model?

41 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

We have several industrial sewing machine dealers in Australia who are contributing members in this forum. All of them deal in leather sewing machines.

Hi wiz, I will definitely check on it, thank you.

[Uwe]

That flatbed table sure is bigger than mine! 

Seiko makes good machines. A good used original (Juki,Seiko,Adler,Pfaff,etc.) is worth as much as a new clone - and will likely hold its value better, at least in my book. 

The 441 is the more popular design, more people have experience with it, and you may have an easier time finding help, parts, and accessories for it.

Most people cannot tell if a stitch line was made on an original or a clone, but some people find working with originals more enjoyable and rewarding.

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Uwe

[aroh99]

Like wiz stated if you have someone near you i would go with them. Save money on shipping. All those companys are great techsew, cobra , cowboy. They stand behind there products. Im sure you will find something in Australia. If you arent doing heavy work. The techsew 2700 or a cowboy 3200 are good medium machines. They will sew up to 3/8 and 1/2inches thick. Even the gun belts i sew are about 1/4 or 5/16 inches thick. Never had to sew anything thicker.  I think those 2 machines are great options to if you wont be sewing anything super heavy. 

[dikman]

I couldn't find a huge amount of info on it but the specs I did find indicate it's pretty close to a 441-type machine - which is heavy duty! It might be a bit too much for what you're doing. You didn't mention what size thread you're using.

The RRP of $8700 is really pretty irrelevant in this case, as it's only worth what someone is prepared to pay, and considering a new Cowboy 4500 is about $4500 here in Oz if he hasn't sold it in 3 months then it's obvious that he's asking too much. It's the sort of machine I'd like, but not at that price. Plus it's got a clutch motor (!) which to me is a negative factor (as in more expense to fit a servo).

[RockyAussie]

Not sure where in QLD you are but I have a 441 type machine here as well as a stack of other probably more suitable size machines you are welcome to come and try out and see what they do if you want. I am near to Rockhampton. I suspect the size machine that would be more suitable for your needs would be in the 335 style but would not be sure without seeing some pictures of the type of stuff you want to make. 0.3-1.2cm leather is an extreme variation and I doubt you would often need to go that thick on the type of products you mention.

[Ehgreen]

11 hours ago, Uwe said:

That flatbed table sure is bigger than mine! 

Seiko makes good machines. A good used original (Juki,Seiko,Adler,Pfaff,etc.) is worth as much as a new clone - and will likely hold its value better, at least in my book. 

The 441 is the more popular design, more people have experience with it, and you may have an easier time finding help, parts, and accessories for it.

Most people cannot tell if a stitch line was made on an original or a clone, but some people find working with originals more enjoyable and rewarding.

 

Does 441 mean Juki441?

I totally agree with you, for the same price I prefer an used but well made machine, at first I bought an Adler 169-737? from the uk when I was there, the dealer dismantled the machine and post it to au in 3boxes, but there were parts lost and broken on its way which I didn’t even notice then, so now, the machine has been at a mechanic’s place for a few months, cost more then$1k to repair and get a new motor( the old one apparently doesn’t suit au standard) such a big headache! Plus I am really in need a machine to sew my sample bags... this time I will choose carfully, best to purchase one from local I think.

[Ehgreen]

12 hours ago, aroh99 said:

Like wiz stated if you have someone near you i would go with them. Save money on shipping. All those companys are great techsew, cobra , cowboy. They stand behind there products. Im sure you will find something in Australia. If you arent doing heavy work. The techsew 2700 or a cowboy 3200 are good medium machines. They will sew up to 3/8 and 1/2inches thick. Even the gun belts i sew are about 1/4 or 5/16 inches thick. Never had to sew anything thicker.  I think those 2 machines are great options to if you wont be sewing anything super heavy. 

 

 

Yes we have cowboy dealers here, I will keep it in my mind. Thanks.

[Ehgreen]

10 hours ago, dikman said:

I couldn't find a huge amount of info on it but the specs I did find indicate it's pretty close to a 441-type machine - which is heavy duty! It might be a bit too much for what you're doing. You didn't mention what size thread you're using.

The RRP of $8700 is really pretty irrelevant in this case, as it's only worth what someone is prepared to pay, and considering a new Cowboy 4500 is about $4500 here in Oz if he hasn't sold it in 3 months then it's obvious that he's asking too much. It's the sort of machine I'd like, but not at that price. Plus it's got a clutch motor (!) which to me is a negative factor (as in more expense to fit a servo).

I see, I will probably wait for something else more suitable, Thank you for the help.

[Ehgreen]

7 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Not sure where in QLD you are but I have a 441 type machine here as well as a stack of other probably more suitable size machines you are welcome to come and try out and see what they do if you want. I am near to Rockhampton. I suspect the size machine that would be more suitable for your needs would be in the 335 style but would not be sure without seeing some pictures of the type of stuff you want to make. 0.3-1.2cm leather is an extreme variation and I doubt you would often need to go that thick on the type of products you mention.

Hi Rocky, I live in Brisbane so it is a bit far from Rockhampton, do you have a link to the machines you are selling? I would love to have a look. Thanks.

[Sheilajeanne]

33 minutes ago, Ehgreen said:

Hi Rocky, I live in Brisbane so it is a bit far from Rockhampton, do you have a link to the machines you are selling? I would love to have a look. Thanks.

Psst....he didn't say he was SELLING them...he said you were welcome to come and try them out!  

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Ehgreen said:

Does 441 mean Juki441?

Yes, that's exactly the Mother machine that is being cloned. The actual Juki model code is TSC-441. This machine is stlll being produced in Japan.

[brmax]

A familar discussion to bring up is thread size, choice and if your bags need or if you want a bigger looking thread. 

The leather thickness you mention sounds like a required choice for that machine capability. A lot of the thick stuff in that dimension if on just strap attachments it may be possible to use a smaller machine. 

Though with a smaller heavy upholstery machine a thread of 138 or under will be the normal. 

 

Good day

Floyd

[dikman]

The Cowboy dealers here also have some slightly lighter duty machines (3200, for example) that would probably be better suited to what you're doing and are, I think, within the price range you're looking at. It would have the advantage of being new and come with a servo. Steve's Industrial Leather Sewing is also located in Qld, so could be handy for you.

[Uwe]

6 hours ago, Ehgreen said:

Does 441 mean Juki441?

Yes, "441" is shorthand for a class of machines that includes the original Juki TSC-441 and the many copies, clones, and close variations of that design.

[RockyAussie]

9 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

Psst....he didn't say he was SELLING them...he said you were welcome to come and try them out!  

That is correct I am not selling any machines but it could be worth coming to see the various machines like splitters and skivers and all sorts of sewing machines. I do see many people buy a less than useful machine for their needs when starting out and a good understanding of the type of machines that would be best for the product you want to produce can save a lot of money and frustration. Some pictures of products can help but to actually feel and discuss how they are made is a real worthwhile advantage. If you check out wildharryaustralia on instagram you can see some of the wide range of products we produce. I cant seem to put a link to it on here I'm sorry.

Brian

[Ehgreen]

34 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

That is correct I am not selling any machines but it could be worth coming to see the various machines like splitters and skivers and all sorts of sewing machines. I do see many people buy a less than useful machine for their needs when starting out and a good understanding of the type of machines that would be best for the product you want to produce can save a lot of money and frustration. Some pictures of products can help but to actually feel and discuss how they are made is a real worthwhile advantage. If you check out wildharryaustralia on instagram you can see some of the wide range of products we produce. I cant seem to put a link to it on here I'm sorry.

Brian

Oh noooooo, I am so embarrassed!

I have sent you my contact info, pls check.

[Ehgreen]

Thanks you all for answering my questions, it’s so informative. I am appreciated.

now there is another machine Pfaff 335, I did some research and luckily the madel seems to be quite right to my needs. 

Pls let me know what you think?

 

 

 

 

I know it’s a clutch motor, but the price is really nice.

[dikman]

The 335's are considered to be a very good machine for their class. Like most of them I see that it is setup with a binder, and while you can sew normally with the binder feet you will probably need to replace them with "standard" feet. By the way, I just read your OP a bit more carefully, and as Brian pointed out if you want to sew 12 mm you may need to go bigger. The 335 is designed to max out at 3/8"/10 mm under the feet. Depending on the leather you may squeeze 12 mm under it.

[Ehgreen]

A sample bag of mine, 0.3cm veg-tan leather, the thickest part of the bag is about 1.1cm, so 335 Can’t do the work;(

 

 

[Ehgreen]

Used this type of  Adler to sew the bag in a bag making course, also it’s the only cylinder bed I have tried.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Ehgreen
Pic

[Wizcrafts]

You'll need a machine with as much longer needle to sew 1.1cm. They most affordable model I know of that is available in the land of OZ is the Cowboy CB3200, which can sew a solid 1/2 inch of leather with heavy thread. Lookup our members Singermania and Darren Brosowski for pricing and shipping details.

[RockyAussie]

18 minutes ago, Ehgreen said:

Used this type of  Adler to sew the bag in a bag making course, also it’s the only cylinder bed I have tried.

I think those may be the Adler 69 type of which I have one here. They are pretty similar to the Pfaff  335 type. I prefer the smoothness of the Pfaff. I'll give you a call shortly.