What ZIGZAG machine would compliment my Consew 206RB-2 for leather?

[myjtp]

I want to add a zigzag machine to my collection so i can sew exotic skins ( lizard, snake, etc ) together with that tight zigzag pattern in order to make them long enough to cover a belt.  What would be a good zigzag machine(s) to look out for to compliment my Consew 206RB-2?

[R8R]

If not crazy thick stuff, the Sailrite Ultrafeed or any of the multitude clones of those mini walking foot machines. (Family Sew, Morse, Tuffsew, etc) They are surprisingly capable but have a definite "stop" limit. In other words, a full tabled industrial machine will struggle at it's top end of capacity, while the mini walking foot machines just say "nope" when they hit their limit. But for the price they can't be beat.

 

[JJN]

These are all bottom feed machines I am referring to here but I do not think you need a walking foot for what you are planning to use it for. Machines to look for include a Singer 20U, Pfaff 138 or 238, Consew 99 or a Bernina 217. Also consider that an old Kenmore domestic machine (all metal) might do what you want for around $50. That is what I would try first.

[myjtp]

I have a lead on a Singer 20U but I will keep my eyes open for all the others you listed thanks so much!! What needle and thread?

[R8R]

20U is an apparel machine, FYI.

[myjtp]

4 minutes ago, R8R said:

20U is an apparel machine, FYI.

so it won't sew tough lizard skins? or alligator? stingray? what would you recommend for tougher leather skins? nothing crazy thick but tougher than fabric

[chrisash]

The £299 sailrite clone seen under a number of other names has a semi walking foot arangement and has a stated 1.6mm x 2 layer proven veg tan limit when i asked Ferco or something like that who makes the clones

I think that is the ones R8R is talking about

[R8R]

1 hour ago, myjtp said:

so it won't sew tough lizard skins? or alligator? stingray? what would you recommend for tougher leather skins? nothing crazy thick but tougher than fabric

Sailrite Ultrafeed LSZ-1

Reliable Barracuda

Rex 607Z

TuffSew Super ZigZag

Family Sew Super ZigZag

Etc

 

These are all machines based on the Thomson mini walking foot machine. They are small, portable and can handle light leather work, and they are cheap, especially if found used. They can (mostly) swap out with Sailrite parts which are slightly upgraded and refined from most of the clones. Sailrite has HOURS of how-to and maintenance video about the Ultrafeed, enough to make anyone a certified mechanic on them.

If you need a simple machine for zigzag on light leather, I can think of none better. Full size walking foot zigzag machines are NOT cheap.

 

 

[shoepatcher]

Consew 199 should do the trick.

glenn

[councilman24]

Zig zags I have are consew 199r-2, 2 pfaff 238s, bernina 217 and 217n, and viking home machine - 1010 or something like that. I haven't tried to do what you want but trying to butt two edges together seems to be something special. Normally these machines sew two layers on top of each other. Differences in thickness or other things might cause them to feed at different rates. Consew 199s, pfaff 238s, and bernina 217s all have two feed dogs on each side so may work okay. Of the three parts are trivial for the consew. Tougher to impossible for pfaffs and berninas. A new version of the bernina 217n is sold buy global in europe. Parts are compatible if you have the same width model but they don't seem to have individual screws etc available. Likely they're at factory in China.

Out if the three I'd recommend the Consew for parts availability. But maybe an older one before made in china. 

The pfaff 238 is a tank. I'm gett8ng to like the bernina. The viking 1010 does somethings that the others won't. 6 layers of 1000lb 1 inch webbing. But only has one feed dog on each side.

But try doing what you want to do on a machine before you buy one. Seems to me there must be a special machine for this. Maybe someone that does this will answer.

Good luck.

[chrisash]

Found this on Youtube and at £300 plus the changes even if it only lasts a few years it might be a good buy for hobbie leatherworkers, but impressive speed control

 

[Wizcrafts]

I bought one of those odd name portable walking foot machines off an eBay private seller a few years ago. The box was dropped on the way and the machine was hopelessly jammed and inoperable and I couldn't free up the main shaft. The seller tried to refuse to take it back and I had to go into arbitration to get some of my money back. So, anybody contemplating buying one should add insurance if offered for the full amount of the machine, plus shipping. Chances are very high that the box will be dropped and the plastic housing will crack, or main shaft will get pushed too far to fix it.

[chrisash]

I brought a ford car that was crap a few years ago, does that mean they are all crap, I bet there are loads of stories about people buying Singers that were faulty, they may actually pack them better these days aswell. comon lets be fait about it Wiz

ps I dont have one and not buying one, just pointed out a cheap solution for what looked a simple and probably not to often done job that wanted doing

[Wizcrafts]

18 minutes ago, chrisash said:

I brought a ford car that was crap a few years ago, does that mean they are all crap, I bet there are loads of stories about people buying Singers that were faulty, they may actually pack them better these days aswell. comon lets be fait about it Wiz

ps I dont have one and not buying one, just pointed out a cheap solution for what looked a simple and probably not to often done job that wanted doing

I simply passed along my experience where the original shipping box and Styrofoam packaging was ineffective at protecting the fragile machine from a drop along the way. Industrial sewing machines are usually shipped strapped onto pallets, with wooden a protective box around the head, with the hand wheel removed to protect the back of the machine from rough handling damage. Industrial sewing machines and tables are usually shipped fully insured.

[R8R]

The little zig zag walking foot machine I have was in a bin at the Goodwill receiving depot. I payed less than 10 bucks for it. Sews great.

I see them on Craig's List occasionally, always cheap.

 

[myjtp]

54 minutes ago, R8R said:

The little zig zag walking foot machine I have was in a bin at the Goodwill receiving depot. I payed less than 10 bucks for it. Sews great.

I see them on Craig's List occasionally, always cheap.

 

Do you have one of the sailrite clones?

[R8R]

37 minutes ago, myjtp said:

Do you have one of the sailrite clones?

Yep. As of the other day, 2 of them. Picked up one on CL with a neat little butcher block table someone made for it.

[chrisash]

Nobody is saying they are industrial machines, they are low cost domestic machines with a foot feed that do a job, if you are a professional using them every day , then no doubt they would fail, but they are tough for what they are

I'm Out

[R8R]

30 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Nobody is saying they are industrial machines, they are low cost domestic machines with a foot feed that do a job, if you are a professional using them every day , then no doubt they would fail, but they are tough for what they are

I'm Out

I would call them "utility" machines. They are definitely stronger than most any home machine, but nobody should pretend they are regular professional use machines. I keep em around for the occasional zig zag, which is rare.

[Constabulary]

I like the Singer 307G2, Singer 107w / 143w Series along with 20U and 457 because you find a good range of needle plates feed dogs and presser feet for different applications. Other brands probably share these parts with Singer but I don´t know the "who is who of ZZ clone machines".

Never underestimate the range of accessories that is available for certain machines!!! The availability of accessories and parts made me a huge vintage Singer fan. For the above Singers you find some nice broader feed dogs,and needle plates + presser feet and also "diamond / checkered" feed dogs with less aggressive teeth.

BTW - the above machines all share the same feed dogs and needle plates but presser feet differ (guess how I know)

107w can also be fitted as straight and ZZ binder machine (maybe possible with the 20U too but I`m not sure). You also find blank presser feet for making a custom foot for the 107w, 143w, 457 - just in case...

Other than that Pfaff 138 is great - IMO nicer than the predecessor 238.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Constabulary

[trash treasure]

Totally agree with the the Singer 107W / 143W recommendation - Very reliable and easy to maintain, in my experience.

We've used them for years, with V69 bonded thread, for sail and canvas work, and they'll sew through a surprising thickness - Good, tough machines.

[DonInReno]

My take on the sailrite clones is pretty neutral.  I have one and think for a new machine not used for production, at less than half the price of an industrial it is a great bang for the buck.  Need a compact machine for a small apartment - it’s perfect. Need a portable machine or something easy to learn on and it always fills the bill. You will break it if you’re sewing the heaviest things that will fit under the presser foot or if you enjoy hot rodding and regularly breaking needles.  Sailrite has upgraded parts that tend to break first and there is a long history backing up the reliability so it’s not really a mystery.

More or less by accident I turned over an old Singer and a Japanese singer clone “dressmaker” and was surprised by how similar the parts looked.  In fact I’m convinced at least some parts would interchange.  Of course these don’t have the walking foot parts, but the lineage of the Thompson and later sailrite machines is firmly rooted in the old all metal domestic machines.  This is such a time tested design Ive never known anyone to wear out one of these iron bed domestics.  

The walking foot and aggressive feed dog does feed canvas quite well.  The factory speed reducer and optional monster wheel does a good job of slowing it down and the smallish motor is probably just right since it works, but is less likely to damage parts than a stronger servo.

I keep it as my go to for anyone wanting to learn how to sew.  It’s just easy to use and not as intimidating to a newbie as something bigger.  

[Gymnast]

I hope for understanding by reviving this 1 year old thread. I got a few questions to the answers.

@myjtp asks for a zigzag that compliments a Consew 206rb. This machine should handle a V138 and perhaps a V207 thread size. However when I look at most of the suggested zigzag machines, they seem to max at a thread size of V92? So these zigzag machines do not compliment the Consew 206rb reagarding thread size. Do you agree?

Except for the Sailrite Ultrafeed types, the machines use drop feed and no walking foot. I suppose this can cause problems with tracktion, if you got some larger size fabrics to be sewn.

I have used some domestic zigzag machines - Bernina 910 and Singer 237 and I observed a big difference for heavier materials. Due to traction problems the fabric can have a tendency to cause pressure on the needle forward or backwards when the feed dog is below the needle plate. At the Berlina 910, the hook goes behind the needle, and therefore this machine becomes very senitive to this needle deflection. It can cause the hook to hit the needle, hit the thread or skip a stitch. For the Singer 237, the hook pass the needle to the side, and therefore it handles these problems much better. Or this is what I think is relevant - do you think the same?

Unfortunately I noticed, that for most of the industrial zigzag machines named here, that do not have walking foot, they have the hook pass the needle behind as my Bernina 910. The Sailrite Ultrafeed type machines have a similar hook as the Singer 237.

Perhaps someone rememeber, that I actually succeeded in making my Singer 237 sew with a Serafil 20 thread (V138). But it may not last long for heavy work like that. I think I may have used it with this kind of work for 20 hours.

@Constabulary You name the Singer 457. I noticed a domestic type machine Singer 457 and an industrial type Singer 457g. I like you to clarify.