Cymro29k3 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) Hey all. I'm Arwel from North Wales. I'm new here and don't have much experience with these old boot patcher machines so please be gentle with me! I need the benefit of your expertise guys. I'm rather stumped! I have a Singer 29k-3 that I've only just recently bought. It took me a while to clean her up, oil her and loosen her up. She was built in 1902 and now runs OK, considering her age. The only thing is this: for the life of me, I cannot get her to sew! I've studied every inch of her, read up as much as I could find about her to no avail. It's obvious to me (even though my experience is with domestic machines and industrial lockstitch machines) that the needle on the 29k has already pierced the fabric before the foot has finished feeding the fabric through. Therefore, the fabric doesn't feed and doesn't produce stitches. I've tried everything I can think of and tbh, it doesn't seem like these machines have very much in the way of possible adjustments so I honestly don't know what to do next! Please help guys! Thank you in advance. Oh and, yeah, I painted her! I'm sorry if you guys don't approve! Arwel Edited December 13, 2018 by Cymro29k3 Trying to upload a photo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJole Report post Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) I don't know anything about sewing machines, but I know a bit about Gwynedd -- I spent a summer in Wales back in 1988, learning Welsh down in Lampeter. I took a bank holiday to visit up north (Caernarvon, Bangor, Snowdonia, a bit of Ynys Mon as well) -- a lovely place! Hope some of the machine gurus here can help your blue beauty work again. Pob lwc! Edited December 13, 2018 by DJole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwight Report post Posted December 13, 2018 Woo-hoo, . . . I love the paint job. Not a big fan of purple, . . . but sometimes, . . . and this is one of them. Cannot offer any specifics on "how to" to make it better, . . . but if that was mine, . . . I'd play with it in my spare time, . . . for days, . . . until I got it working again. Best wishes and all the encouragement I can muster up, . . . is yours, . . . go for it. May God bless, Dwight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted December 13, 2018 @Cymro29k3 moved your post to leather sewing machines. You'll get more contact with the gurus here. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisash Report post Posted December 13, 2018 Maybe a video of the action would help with maybe the bobbin cover mover out of the way so people can observe the pickup action Might have been a shop window machine to get that colour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) Hard to tell w/o sitting in front of it and watching the stitch cycle. Well - when cranking the machine - in the moment the presser foot moves back (for making a new stitch) and touches the needle plate the needle bar should be in its lowest position and should start rising. If this is not the case it "could be" that the pulley cam is in wrong position on the top shaft. Beside that - I guess you have the stitch length adjuster on the longest stitch right? Make sure the stitch length adjuster is correctly assembled. The squared frame and the gib have a "wedge" which have to be in a positioned correctly. The wedges give the presser foot bar space for its movement (feeding). Also make sure foot lift mechanism on the backside is correctly assembled and foot pressure is adjusted as low as possible. Position of the foot lift slider on the leaf spring is also important. I would like to see a pictures of the backside if you don´t mind. BTW - very special color Edited December 13, 2018 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted December 13, 2018 First of all, buy a pack of new needles in the correct "system:" 29x3 or 29x4, or 135x16 or 135x17. These have the correct length from stem to stern. The wrong length would impede feeding. While these are on order remove the needle and adjust for the best possible feeding of 8 ounces of leather. The foot should pull back then lift off the leather as the needle bar moves up and down down. The lift is determined by a sliding block that rides along the end of the leaf pressure spring. There must be enough pressure applied by that spring to hold the foot down as the needle ascends to for stitches. Too little and the leather will lift with the needle, causing skipped stitches. Too much and the leather will have deep marks and you'll stress out the ancient mechanism. Lower the stitch length adjuster gib with the foot lifted up all the way via the hand lift lever on the back. This is the longest stitch length setting. You can verify if your needle is the correct length by opening the throat plate sideways, rotating the hand wheel (c.c.w.) and watching the hook as it passes the needle clockwise, then reverses and intersects it about 3mm above the eye. The needle should go all the way down, make a slight upward jog, halt for the hook's arrival, then continue lifting. If the needle is too short, the hook may never intersect it above the eye as it makes its jog. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yetibelle Report post Posted December 13, 2018 There are a number of items that can keep the 29k from making a stitch. A few are really simple and frustrating. Some include worn parts on the inside of the head, but lets assume they are ok. From what I understand its sewing "in place" and not advancing the leather. So even if it was not threaded and you just blank stitched you would not get even stitch holes? Or are you getting very small stitch holes in a line? Here are a few things to check. On the back of the 29 there should be a wing nut sliding adjustment, move that all the way to one side and the other. When you raise and lower the foot, that spring should compress and release. Sometimes it gets stuck and wont release so you don't get any pressure on the foot. You may need more oil in there and not even know its stuck until you hear it click release. But if the foot has no pressure and not moving its probably the spring. So check that tension on the spring and see if it is actually doing its job, and you feel pressure when you raise and lower the foot lever. That little screw in the front middle under the second tension assembly is annoying and I'm not sure of its value other than to frustrate. So loosen that and it makes the machine work. If the machine is feeding correctly and you have the right pressure on the leather and getting spaced holes and its still not picking up the bottom thread. Flip the needle plate around. It has 2 sets of holes, again not sure why, one set works and the other does not. This can also be frustrating. Once you find the side of the plate that works mark it with a dot. Last thing, since the head can rotate by turning the Wings, there may be one direction it prefers and it will start sewing. I guarantee that direction is not directly forward like you think it should be. So turn the wings that rotate the foot to the right slightly and then left slightly and see if you find that point it actually picks up the thread. This also means that you have a worn track in there and a few parts need updating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) I understood it the way that the feeding is the main problem at the moment not the loop forming / stitch building Yetibelle - yours looks like a 29K51 - the 29K3 is a bit different Edited December 13, 2018 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yetibelle Report post Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Constabulary said: Yeti - yours looks like a 29K51 - the 29K3 is a bit different Correct that is the 51. They are all 80 year old puzzles and figured any tricky thing to look for may help out a little. When I put that head back together it was stiff and didn't spin smoothly, I took it apart 3 more times and then finally got it to spin smooth and I still have no idea what I changed. Does that k3 have an internal presser foot spring? Or is it getting foot pressure from the bar? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted December 14, 2018 29K3 has the leaf spring on the backside, the internal helical spring came out with the 29K5x series and all later 29K machines have this helical spring too and most of the head parts of the 29K5x and later ("up to date") 29K models are interchangeable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisash Report post Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) Thats interesting, can you say what parts are different between the 5 series and the 7 series as i understand that many parts for the 5 series are now unavailable Edited December 14, 2018 by chrisash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted December 14, 2018 As I said almost all head parts are interchangeable (with head I mean the "cylinder" cast iron part which is attached with 4 screws to the body - not speaking of the machine body or gear box). Difference that I recall between K51 and K71 head is that the lifting lever on the K51 is pinned whereas the K71 is just clamped and the lifting lever adjusting lever is a bit different. You sometimes have to read a bit between the lines when it comes to 29K patchers... Reg. unavailable parts - the gear box parts (racks, pinions) of the 29K5x are no longer available - their pinions are a lot smaller (29K patchers had at least 3 different size gear box pinions - depending on the subclass). But I know someone who is planing to make new pinions for the 29K5x machines but that may still take some time... I fortunately have a few spare pinions for the 29K5x series but they are not for sale. The 29K patcher series have changed a lot over the years (or decades). If you want to buy a 29K patcher I would recommend the later models 29K70 - 29K73 because all parts are available (aftermarket made in China), followed by the 29K6x series (gear box parts are the same and just very minor difference in the overall parts compared to the 29K7x series) then followed by the 29K5x series because the "head parts" are almost identical with the 29K7x series. Other than that I would not really recommend buying a 29K model except it is really cheap and you do not have much expectations. But as always it depends on the overall condition... An early 29K can be nice too but it´s all about the wear parts - JFTC you need some - maybe - one day... This is just my opinion based on the availability of parts for a long term use of the machines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) @ Yetibelle When I look at your pictures it seems there is a wrong part on your machine - the "vibrating presser lifting lever" appears to be too long. I guess its from a different / earlier 29K model. See big red arrow I added. Or it is just the angle... not sure... Edited December 14, 2018 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoepatcher Report post Posted December 14, 2018 A 29K3 is a lot like a 29-4 in that it has a solid horn. The problem with these machines is the area in the horn around the bobbin case wears and the only way to fix it was an insert put into the bobbin case area that took up the wear. I looked at doing this years ago and then the clones came out so why bother. The other problem as Folker mentioned was this: there was no adjustments to take up the wear on the parts. Once they wore, you had to replace them. With Pilgrim Shoe no longer in business, the source for parts for these early model machines has dried up i.e., pinions, needle plates, screws, etc. glenn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimi Report post Posted December 14, 2018 Cymro, it would help if you could send a short video or some pictures of your 29k Trex version cycling over?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted December 14, 2018 This supplier has 29-4 used parts for sale. It may be worth contacting them to see if they have any 29-3 parts. http://horsenharness.com/singers29-4.html They are of course across the pond (Salem Ohio) from the OP. Contact jannaomi@cboss.com Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimi Report post Posted December 14, 2018 26 minutes ago, Northmount said: This supplier has 29-4 used parts for sale. No offense, but they must be taking psychotropic pancakes for breakfast with these prices!!! Used Parts!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisash Report post Posted December 14, 2018 May be cheaper than ditching the machine as US, value is dependant on your need with that supplier, you can always sell the dead machine to a fisherman to use as a anchor I had a friend in Norfolk UK who's father brought a lot of Spitfire and Hurricane spares at the end of the War, when the restorers became big business in the 1990's they complained about his prices yet charged then over £1,000,000 for the restored aircraft, he told them he had stored the parts for 50 years with no income, how do you value that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cymro29k3 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 On 13/12/2018 at 7:09 AM, DJole said: I don't know anything about sewing machines, but I know a bit about Gwynedd -- I spent a summer in Wales back in 1988, learning Welsh down in Lampeter. I took a bank holiday to visit up north (Caernarvon, Bangor, Snowdonia, a bit of Ynys Mon as well) -- a lovely place! Hope some of the machine gurus here can help your blue beauty work again. Pob lwc! Diolch gyfaill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cymro29k3 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 On 13/12/2018 at 12:39 PM, Dwight said: Woo-hoo, . . . I love the paint job. Not a big fan of purple, . . . but sometimes, . . . and this is one of them. Cannot offer any specifics on "how to" to make it better, . . . but if that was mine, . . . I'd play with it in my spare time, . . . for days, . . . until I got it working again. Best wishes and all the encouragement I can muster up, . . . is yours, . . . go for it. May God bless, Dwight Awww thank you my friend. Very kind of you. On 13/12/2018 at 1:04 PM, Northmount said: @Cymro29k3 moved your post to leather sewing machines. You'll get more contact with the gurus here. Tom Thank you kind sir. I've no idea what I'm doing here. It doesn't help that I'm on this site on my phone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yetibelle Report post Posted December 14, 2018 10 hours ago, Constabulary said: @ Yetibelle When I look at your pictures it seems there is a wrong part on your machine - the "vibrating presser lifting lever" appears to be too long. I guess its from a different / earlier 29K model. See big red arrow I added. Or it is just the angle... not sure... I sold this machine a few years ago, it was working when I sold it. I'm sure that part could have been wrong, if I ever come across another one I will have to compare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cymro29k3 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 On 13/12/2018 at 1:06 PM, chrisash said: Maybe a video of the action would help with maybe the bobbin cover mover out of the way so people can observe the pickup action Might have been a shop window machine to get that colour Sorry for the quality of the vid. It just won't allow me to upload a better quality vid but I shall take some photos. MOV_1224.mp4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted December 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Cymro29k3 said: Sorry for the quality of the vid. It just won't allow me to upload a better quality vid but I shall take some photos. MOV_1224.mp4 The feed is out of sync with the needle's motion and position. The needle must be completely out of the material for it to feed. your needle is moving down, passing the plane of the foot, as the foot is trying to feed the work! Perhaps a previous owner replaced the cam on the rear of the main shaft with the wrong part number (e.g., cam for long arm machine instead of short arm). Also, the foot looks like it is not lowering far enough to get a firm grip on the material. It should come closer to the arm with the throat plate swung away and actually drag on the throat plate when it is locked in working position.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cymro29k3 Report post Posted December 15, 2018 On 13/12/2018 at 1:06 PM, chrisash said: Maybe a video of the action would help with maybe the bobbin cover mover out of the way so people can observe the pickup action Might have been a shop window machine to get that colour This is so not user friendly on my mobile phone!! I painted her myself.. The quality of the videos I am able to upload are terrible too!! This is so difficult to do on this phone! Yes, all that makes sense. I've noticed that one of the screws holding the hand wheel is broken and a screw is missing from the big wiggly pulley thingy on the main shaft! Therefore it looks like I probably won't be able to fix it myself. I don't have the tools to remove the broken screw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
