superpacker Report post Posted January 13, 2019 Obviously on a 1" belt or narrower, a single rivet or screw will suffice, but on wider belts 1.25 - 1.5" it seems to me that you'd want to use two rivets/screws, and the first really well-made belt I ever got (and the belt that got me into leathercraft) has 2. But I've seen a lot this wide only use 1. Any method or madness behind these two options? I'd be curious to hear what people say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fredk Report post Posted January 13, 2019 On all belts I make, if I use rivets I use at least 4 and often 6. Two up by the buckle, and two each side of the strap keeper. If the buckle has a built in keeper then only 4 rivets, two by the buckle and two at the end of the strip of leather folded over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superpacker Report post Posted January 13, 2019 Good clarification. I was thinking about center bar Buckles that don’t need a keeper For those I’ve seen one used. But I use two. On heel bars I’ve seen 2 used. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nrk Report post Posted January 13, 2019 don't you sew the leather? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superpacker Report post Posted January 14, 2019 No. I know sew is the strongest, but I like to give the option to switch out Buckles so I use screws Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rockoboy Report post Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) On 14/01/2019 at 8:32 AM, superpacker said: sew is the strongest Sewing can be stronger or it can be a wear point. Stitching across a belt is like the perforations between postage stamps, just waiting to be torn apart. Personally, I like Chicago screws so the buckle can be changed or re-used when the belt needs to be renovated. Edited January 18, 2019 by Rockoboy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handstitched Report post Posted January 18, 2019 G'Day, I use x 2 press studs , line 24's , so the customer has the option of changing the buckle . But some of the heavier belts, tool belts etc. are either sewn or riveted . HS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bikermutt07 Report post Posted January 18, 2019 I have been wearing a belt for over a year now that has 4 line 20 snaps. Never had the first problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) I use 3 screws on 1 1/2" wide belts. Couple reasons, so I will continue. But that comment about sewing "across" things has been going on since .. what.. Stohlman wrote that 50 years ago? 60 years? At any rate, it's correct. This is why I break up lines when and where possible. This is the reason the stitching stops at the red arrows, does NOT continue all the way up, avoiding a break line. Plus, doesn't hurt that it looks good. And also why the stitching joins at or near right angles at the dark blue arrows... no stress point concentration there either. The strength of 3 screw is not required for a belt. I've made a LOT of belts with 2 or sometimes 3 Line 16 "segma" snaps. My only issue with those is the limitation on how thick the leather they will go through (about 9 oz is top). Line 24 snaps are strong enough, but I don't like the bulk. But the point of 3.. screws can come loose, back out if not checked. Guy carrying a gun and / or equipment should check, but that doesn't mean they will. So , 3 is a layer of security. The idea of a screw backing out can happen - I've seen it happen. But the odds that two come out at the same time is far less likely, especially when they are in line. And 3? Highly unlikely. I use leather belt loop "keepers", which are retained between the screws. I recommend using a drop of thread locker on each one. But I don't add it, since you may need to move the leather keeper loop over depending on your belt loops on your pants. Or some might remove it altogether. BTW, same way on rifle slings. I don't loc-tite 'em, because installing it would break the seal. But I do recommend that you loc-tite 'em once you have it (loc-tite is a brand of thread locker). Edited January 18, 2019 by JLSleather Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bermudahwin Report post Posted January 18, 2019 Hard to describe how, but for bridle and harness we were taught as in the picture, capturing the keeper, but not stitching through it. and then throwing a stitch over the edge. Will try to remember to photo the next one I do. It avoids postage stamping. H Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nrk Report post Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/18/2019 at 8:06 AM, Rockoboy said: Sewing can be stronger or it can be a wear point. Stitching across a belt is like the perforations between postage stamps, just waiting to be torn apart. Personally, I like Chicago screws so the buckle can be changed or re-used when the belt needs to be renovated. I barely (almost none) face customers asking for the option of changing buckles. sewing is the strongest way to get layers hold together compared to rivets and chicago screws. Perforations has nothing to do with the weakness. stitches also aesthetically beautiful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rockoboy Report post Posted January 21, 2019 On 20/01/2019 at 4:54 AM, nrk said: sewing is the strongest way to get layers hold together compared to rivets and chicago screws. Perforations has nothing to do with the weakness. stitches also aesthetically beautiful I can agree with what you wrote here, on some levels. I have seen some beautifully stitched belts, and the stitching will be stronger and more secure than a rivet, snap or Chicago screw. Maybe the perforations thing is an urban legend, or something that happened to one person who had stitched many lines back and forth across a belt, which subsequently failed. Maybe the changing of buckles is something, also requested once by one person, which has become some sort of "customer service initiative" that customer's don't really want. Oh well, no big deal either way IMHO, so long as the customer gets a belt that does what they want it to do. It is good to consider the other side of the discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted January 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Rockoboy said: I can agree with what you wrote here, on some levels. Yeah, some would agree. And others wouldn't Here's a couple of things to consider, take or leave it... PRO: Stitching would actually be easier and faster, if you're stitching the belt anyway. No stopping to punch holes or get the screws out, or the screwdriver. Stitching is reliable. Unlikely to back out or come loose. No punches required. No screws required. CON: I do have people who want to change the buckle. Kids get bigger. When they grow, changing the buckle for a LONGER buckle allows the belt to be used longer. New buckle usually cheaper than new belt. Young girls win barrel racing competitions. And they get - sometimes - very nice buckles. And they want to wear it on a nice belt. Then they get other award buckles, or they want to wear that belt but want to put that buckle up, etc. Yeah, that has happened. Whatcha gonna do.. require she buy another belt? With a quality, nice belt, people tend to try to take care of it. But inevitably the buckle gets dinged and scratched. Replacing buckle solves the issue. People shop. Sometimes they find buckles they like. Stitched "shut" belts trap the leather "keeper" loop. Seems okay, until it interferes with the loop on the clothing. Like moving it over an inch would let you wear that belt with that jeans... but you can't ... People can buy a belt ready to go - even if they don't like the buckle. All that said, I just got a request other day, asking -- since I offer to make a belt that suits YOUR buckle, is there a "discount" if they DON"T want the buckle? Wel, yah, I guess... don't see me charging for a buckle I'm not sending! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRod Report post Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, JLSleather said: Young girls win barrel racing competitions. And they get - sometimes - very nice buckles. And they want to wear it on a nice belt. Then they get other award buckles, or they want to wear that belt but want to put that buckle up, etc. Yeah, that has happened. Whatcha gonna do.. require she buy another belt? This. My daughter had a very successful competitive youth career showing in APHA (American Paint Horse Association) shows, particularly in western events. She collected a *shocking* number of huge, shiny belt buckles, each detailing some conquest or other (trail, western pleasure, etc, etc). She would sometimes take four or six buckles to a show and swap 'em out between events, just for grins. I bet there are 30 or more buckles, all in their little boxes, stacked on the shelf in her closet. She's out of competitive showing now (learning to play polo in college, actually), but my bride is chomping at the bit (pardon the pun) for me to learn how to make the fancy stuff (I am still as green as green can be at this). Tandy was running a pretty good deal on some upholstery hides and my wife went with me to pick something out to recover four kitchen chairs. We ended up with a simple black chrome tan, but she had no idea how large a hide was. When we unfurled the thing her eyes lit up. "YOU will have enough to make me some new SHOW CHAPS with this!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rockoboy Report post Posted January 21, 2019 48 minutes ago, GRod said: YOU will have enough to make me some new ... and the hamster wheel begins to turn! Welcome aboard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
