cb4500 stitch issue with webbing

[alpha2]

Whenever I try to stitch webbing, I have an issue with a loop being created, which usually wraps around the presser foot. It might run an entire run of two or three inches before it starts happening. I've tried to adjust first the upper tension, then the lower tension, then both, but it still happens. I'm using a 7x3#24 needle, and size 138 bonded polyester pre-lubed thread. I've tried two or three needles of the same size to make sure it's not a bent or burred needle. I thought before I chased my tail anymore, I'd see if there is an easy explanation for this. 

Jeff

It doesn't always wrap around the bobbin case, either. I just found that today. I had noticed the extra thread coming up from the bobbin, but didn't know why, now I do!

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by alpha2

[kgg]

Have you checked the way the bobbin is installed? The bobbin thread needs to be coming off the bobbin in a counter clockwise fashion otherwise weird stuff can happen to do a quick check hold the bobbin case in your right hand between your thumb and index finger, grab the thread with your left hand and pull the bobbin must rotate counter clockwise.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

Webbing has very little resistance to a big needle being driven at 9:1 pulley ratio. It's like sewing air after making a hole with an M16 round. You may need to start playing with the check spring throw. Try dropping the bottom stop bracket so the spring goes farther down. Also, try using a #23 needle instead (7x3 round point only).

Can you post a close-up photo of your thread path around the bottom tensioner and check spring, with the spring at read against the stopper?

Another thing that may affect the outcome is the thread tensions and pressure of the feet.

If all else fails, try substituting the standard throat pate and feed dog for just the narrow slotted throat plate. Its narrow slot doesn't let softer materials get pushed into the slot as much as the humongous hole in the standard feed dog. In fact, you might just try changing the feed dog to the blanket feed dog that has a smaller hole and teeth. The teeth will help move the slippery webbing better than the smooth dog and the smaller hole may hold the material up better.

[alpha2]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Have you checked the way the bobbin is installed? The bobbin thread needs to be coming off the bobbin in a counter clockwise fashion otherwise weird stuff can happen to do a quick check hold the bobbin case in your right hand between your thumb and index finger, grab the thread with your left hand and pull the bobbin must rotate counter clockwise.

kgg

I did have that wrong. I misunderstood the picture in the manual. Never been an issue with leather? Go figure. That didn't solve the problem though.

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

Webbing has very little resistance to a big needle being driven at 9:1 pulley ratio. It's like sewing air after making a hole with an M16 round. You may need to start playing with the check spring throw. Try dropping the bottom stop bracket so the spring goes farther down. Also, try using a #23 needle instead (7x3 round point only).

Can you post a close-up photo of your thread path around the bottom tensioner and check spring, with the spring at read against the stopper?

Another thing that may affect the outcome is the thread tensions and pressure of the feet.

If all else fails, try substituting the standard throat pate and feed dog for just the narrow slotted throat plate. Its narrow slot doesn't let softer materials get pushed into the slot as much as the humongous hole in the standard feed dog. In fact, you might just try changing the feed dog to the blanket feed dog that has a smaller hole and teeth. The teeth will help move the slippery webbing better than the smooth dog and the smaller hole may hold the material up better.

Here's the pics. I lightened the upper thread tension quite a bit. In the pic with the arrows, I had followed a video online and had the thread in the left side of this part, I moved it to the right side after seeing a note in the manual. I don't know how much difference this will make, but it makes more sense, as now the thread will be riding on the screw instead of the edge the sheet metal part. I'll let you see the pics before I go to the switching out of the plate and dog.

Is the amount of slack in the last pic normal?

 

 

[kgg]

Did you thread the thread through the hole just above the needle in the needle drive shaft before threading the eye of the needle?

kgg

[alpha2]

Yep. I changed to the blanket presser foot and needle bar, that seemed to fix the problem. I wish just once I could put a part on this machine and not have to re-machine it to fit. I'm beginning to think it would be better to just buy the Juki parts and be done with it. The knock offs are a joke. I had to file and ream and sand on both the blanket parts. Sorry, rant over! 

[catskin]

1 hour ago, alpha2 said:

Yep. I changed to the blanket presser foot and needle bar, that seemed to fix the problem. I wish just once I could put a part on this machine and not have to re-machine it to fit. I'm beginning to think it would be better to just buy the Juki parts and be done with it. The knock offs are a joke. I had to file and ream and sand on both the blanket parts. Sorry, rant over! 

When and where did you get this machine?  Hardly any parts look like my Cowboy 4500 the parts on yours are all rough where mine are smooth and shiny I have never had to make any adjustments to any parts that came with my machine.  Tension discs thread guides bobbin case all look cheap made compared to mine. Or is this just a copy made by somebody else that is supposed to be like a Cowboy.

[alpha2]

First, let me say that when I saw the blown up images, I couldn't believe how bad they looked. With just your eyes they don't look that bad at all. However, every part I put on the machine, that wasn't on the machine when I received it, had to be altered. Filed, sanded, bent, to make them fit the machine. I hadn't tried to use the blanket foot and needle bar until this afternoon, I had to file the channel in the presser foot so it would fit on the square shaft, and the needle foot had to be reamed and sanded so it would fit on the round shaft. The machine is about a year old. I'm not going to say who I got it from, as I decided to fit the parts myself, and didn't give the dealer the opportunity to make it right. That's on me. All I'm saying is that wherever these parts are coming from, they seriously need to go back. To pass them on to the unsuspecting final purchaser would be expecting all of them to have the experience and tools to make them fit. That is extremely unlikely. When you say "supposed to be like a Cowboy", you have to remember that Cowboy is a cheaper knock off Chinese copy of a Juki. I didn't spend the money to get a Juki. If I had to buy a Juki, I wouldn't have an industrial stitcher at all. That's on me, too. But, I would expect the accessory parts to fit right out of the bag. Oh, and I had to file the cylinder casting to easily remove and replace the bobbin and shuttle parts. And the needle plate needed to be ground down so the edge guide could get close to the needle. But, hey, I saved a couple of thousand dollars over a Juki. My choice.

Jeff

[SolarLeatherMachines]

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Edited January 21, 2019 by SolarLeatherMachines

[catskin]

44 minutes ago, alpha2 said:

First, let me say that when I saw the blown up images, I couldn't believe how bad they looked. With just your eyes they don't look that bad at all. However, every part I put on the machine, that wasn't on the machine when I received it, had to be altered. Filed, sanded, bent, to make them fit the machine. I hadn't tried to use the blanket foot and needle bar until this afternoon, I had to file the channel in the presser foot so it would fit on the square shaft, and the needle foot had to be reamed and sanded so it would fit on the round shaft. The machine is about a year old. I'm not going to say who I got it from, as I decided to fit the parts myself, and didn't give the dealer the opportunity to make it right. That's on me. All I'm saying is that wherever these parts are coming from, they seriously need to go back. To pass them on to the unsuspecting final purchaser would be expecting all of them to have the experience and tools to make them fit. That is extremely unlikely. When you say "supposed to be like a Cowboy", you have to remember that Cowboy is a cheaper knock off Chinese copy of a Juki. I didn't spend the money to get a Juki. If I had to buy a Juki, I wouldn't have an industrial stitcher at all. That's on me, too. But, I would expect the accessory parts to fit right out of the bag. Oh, and I had to file the cylinder casting to easily remove and replace the bobbin and shuttle parts. And the needle plate needed to be ground down so the edge guide could get close to the needle. But, hey, I saved a couple of thousand dollars over a Juki. My choice.

Jeff

If Cowboy machines now are like that I am glad I bought mine several years ago.  There are apparently lots of companies copying the JUKI and some do better than others.  That is why I wondered if this was maybe a shipped from china machine that was not from the same place Cowboy comes from.  But claimed to be equal.  For example those parts in the pictures don't look stainless steel as mine are.