Sewing Machine Recommendation for Small Leather Goods?

[YSRASupply]

Hello there!  I was hoping to get some recommendations for a sewing machine from you guys... I have been hand sewing all my wallets and small leather goods since I started working with leather but that's getting a bit tiresome and I feel like I could really speed things up with a proper sewing machine and open up possibilities for new products/materials.

You can see the stuff that I make here: https://www.ysrasupply.com or here: https://www.instagram.com/ysrasupply/

Also posted a pic below to give you an idea of what I'm working with...  most of the leather I work with is 3-4 layers of 3oz leather + 1 layer of 5oz leather but I'd like to be able to sew thicker 8-10oz leather too...

 

Would you guys recommend a flat bed or cylinder arm machine? Or maybe a one that is convertible to a flat bed? I've see people post that you can do most the stuff on a flat bed that you can on a cylinder/etc so I'm really not sure which way to go...

I've look at Cobra machines as well as Juki online but am a bit overwhelmed with all the choices out there...

Can anyone recommend a good machine to get me going? and anyone know of good dealers in the Greenville, SC area? I'd prefer to deal with someone local that can help with repairs/etc if ever needed.

Lastly my budget would probably need to be less than $2k right now... if I could get one cheaper then that'd be even better but all in all I just want to make sure I get a solid machine that's somewhat easy to set up and use that will LAST.

Thanks!

Edited January 21, 2019 by YSRASupply

[Northmount]

If everything you make is flat, then a flat bed is all you need.

Have you read this post?

Tom

[aroh99]

you didn't mention what thread sizes you use. Most standard flat bed machines will take up to 138 thread max.  There are a few exceptions the Juki LU-1508H and the cobra class 4 which are rated to sew up to 207 thread. there maybe more but these are the 2 im aware of. if you sew with thicker thread you would need a bigger machine.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, aroh99 said:

you didn't mention what thread sizes you use. Most standard flat bed machines will take up to 138 thread max.  There are a few exceptions the Juki LU-1508H and the cobra class 4 which are rated to sew up to 207 thread. there maybe more but these are the 2 im aware of. if you sew with thicker thread you would need a bigger machine.

The Cobra Class 4 can sew with up to #415 thread. #207 is towards its lower end. The Juki that sews with up to #207 is the LU-1508NH

[Wizcrafts]

I would sew these wallets on a flat bed walking foot machine. They don't require any thread larger than #92, or maybe #138 bonded nylon.

[ScoobyNewbie]

I played with the new Stitchmaster from Tandy today. It was lovely. I used it to make that little pressure coin purse from Projects by Al Stohlman. The first one was sad but tight, the second one was loose,, but prettier. I had to take a stitch in at the back to make it stay closed. Then I mucked them both up by trying to use the embosser on them.

But the machine was easy to set up, use and the speed was very controllable. Fast when I wanted it. Slow when I got scered. And the toe was very easy to work around for tight stitch corners. 

[YSRASupply]

Thanks for the replies!  I did forget to mention thread size... I'm unfamiliar with thread sizing for sewing machines but right now I typically use thinner thread (around 0.45mm similar to Lin Cable 632) and could see myself maybe going up to 0.6mm thread on certain projects... that being said, I'd want a machine that will give me some versatility with thread sizing.

Thanks again!

[Wizcrafts]

39 minutes ago, YSRASupply said:

Thanks for the replies!  I did forget to mention thread size... I'm unfamiliar with thread sizing for sewing machines but right now I typically use thinner thread (around 0.45mm similar to Lin Cable 632) and could see myself maybe going up to 0.6mm thread on certain projects... that being said, I'd want a machine that will give me some versatility with thread sizing.

Thanks again!

According to this thread and needle chart, 0.6mm is the slightly bigger than #277 (T270) and slightly thinner than #346 bonded nylon thread. Let's call it imaginary T300. You will need a holster/harness stitcher that can use #25 and #26 needles to sew that thickness of thread. The hook and shuttle will be around 2.5" or more in diameter. The least machine I know of that can handle this thread and needle combination is the ancient Singer 132k6 (a buffing wheel stitcher). The next step up is the GA5 type machines (e.g., CB2500 and the Techsew 3650HD), then 441 clones like the CB3200, the Cobra Class 3,).

That takes care of the machine problem. But wait: these are lockstitch machines. When they form a stitch the top and bottom threads overlap inside the material. the thicker the thread, the larger the "knots" formed by the overlap. In the case of #277 thread (0.586mm)  the knots are about 1.5x the thread diameter. It will take approximately 3/16 inch of leather to completely hide the knots with #277 thread. If you were to use #138 in the bobbin, you'd still need at least 1/8 inch of leather to bury the knots.

[arz]

We make similar items as well as some bags.

When we hand stitch we use Lin Cable 532. The Serafil M20 (#135) thread is the closest diameter to 532 that I could find. This is when you see it in person and sew it. It is about 0.57mm according to my eye and placing the threads side by side. The M30 (#96) equals about 632. The Serafil is a poly thread and "seems" larger than the Lin Cable.

You will be happy with #138 thread coming from a 532/632 hand stitch thread.

We bought an Adler 69 and it is working fine for our items. A 441 machine would be too large for our wallets/flat items, max of 6mm (15oz ?) of leather.  If you like the thick, rustic style with say 332 thread then you will need a heavy duty machine (441 etc).

-Adam

Edited January 22, 2019 by arz

[chrisash]

Great post Wiz, something many would never consider

[Orangeleather]

Excuse for jumping on this thread as I doubt Wiz woukd appreciate a new thread for my question.

I'm currently have a Brother innovis 55 domestic which I've used for lightweight occasional pieces.

However, I'm looking at a Brother FS210 as an alternative, woukd this still be capable rather than using my patcher.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Orangeleather
Edit

[SilverForgeStudio]

On 1/21/2019 at 10:46 PM, YSRASupply said:

Thanks for the replies!  I did forget to mention thread size... I'm unfamiliar with thread sizing for sewing machines but right now I typically use thinner thread (around 0.45mm similar to Lin Cable 632) and could see myself maybe going up to 0.6mm thread on certain projects... that being said, I'd want a machine that will give me some versatility with thread sizing.

Thanks again!

I am in the same research and recon position you are right now for my leather working and have a series of items I am looking at/working on in various weights. I have had the luxury of demo-work on several Adler and Consew models. All have trade offs.  Its not buying... its feeding, caring and servicing the thing you need to bring into the picture as well. 

One thing to consider that has not been put out there for you is this- its not what you are currently sewing but what is your next level of products to consider. For production runs and "stable" product lines you may consider a flat bed all you will ever need- These machines are work-horses and can have good resale value if maintained.

If you want to try larger mil-spec threads and kevlar items that may need a heavier needle consider the next level of machine you will need.

As well consider parts/service/maintenance and warranty- you buy a "new" machine- is your warranty service center 75 miles away? Where is your closest spare parts guy? I am lucky to have both an Adler and Consew certified tech business near me (He also does older Pfaff as well- awesome dude). My local Juki service center is a quilting place that has NO CLUE about leather- but can take in warranty work no issue. 

Just my two cents here... Consider a cylinder-arm with a bed-attachment. Walking foot or compound walking foot machine and just go from there- These machines can go UP in thickness from where you are and although they can be fussy/finicky with the thinner items- once dialed in can do good work. Learn your machine inside and out. Get the SERVO upgrades- the control is vastly better for folks like me (fumble fingers who need the slowness and precision).

1. TRY before you buy- take several thicknesses or projects and GO SEW with any machine you are thinking about
2. look at the top and BOTTOM stitch lines when you sew
3. Dont look at price of the machine- look at Value to you, the resale and functionality (Is it obsolete? Will it grow with your skill level or will you OUT-grow it)
4. Compare- if someone says a price is only for right now- then walk away- they are trying to move something fast (Ask why?)
5. Can a heavy domestic like a Singer 4411 do your work? May be an option (I use it for 2-3 oz liners)

For that matter you could buy one of the "Hand-crank Shoe-Patchers" relatively cheap and learn on it while speeding up production-  There are multiple videos on Youtube regarding these from setting up to Q/A to troubleshooting- Here is one to consider: 

 

Let us know what you decide and please have a great day!

[Wizcrafts]

16 hours ago, Orangeleather said:

Excuse for jumping on this thread as I doubt Wiz woukd appreciate a new thread for my question.

I'm currently have a Brother innovis 55 domestic which I've used for lightweight occasional pieces.

However, I'm looking at a Brother FS210 as an alternative, woukd this still be capable rather than using my patcher.

We discuss industrial leather sewing machines here. Your question might get a better response on a forum that deals with plastic body domestic machines. I'm sure somebody has tried sewing leather on such a machine and can advise you of how that went for them. My own experience with plastic body electronic domestic machines sewing 5 or 6 ounces of leather was parts flying across the room.

Now, if you were asking me about an old iron body Singer model 27 or 127, that's another story.

[koreric75]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

We discuss industrial leather sewing machines here. Your question might get a better response on a forum that deals with plastic body domestic machines. I'm sure somebody has tried sewing leather on such a machine and can advise you of how that went for them. My own experience with plastic body electronic domestic machines sewing 5 or 6 ounces of leather was parts flying across the room.

Now, if you were asking me about an old iron body Singer model 27 or 127, that's another story.

Hey wiz, i have an old iron body or two, my 127 was completely serviced, but it feels like there is a sticky spot and makes the shuttle drive feel "jerky", i haven't put a motor on it yet and was told that it was normal after getting some new parts to let it "run in" to allow the machine to wear the newer parts and it should be back to smooth operation.  I have a couple of tables i could  put this in, but it's a short bed and doesn't fit so i'm going to need to alter or make an adapter to drop it in first...

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, koreric75 said:

Hey wiz, i have an old iron body or two, my 127 was completely serviced, but it feels like there is a sticky spot and makes the shuttle drive feel "jerky", i haven't put a motor on it yet and was told that it was normal after getting some new parts to let it "run in" to allow the machine to wear the newer parts and it should be back to smooth operation.  I have a couple of tables i could  put this in, but it's a short bed and doesn't fit so i'm going to need to alter or make an adapter to drop it in first...

Really? I serviced a few model 27, 28, 127 and 128 machines and they never had that problem afterwards. The biggest problem I encountered was securing the bobbin thread to wind a bobbin!

The last Singer model 127 I refurbished and sold could sew with #92 bonded nylon thread into a 10-12 ounce bridle leather strap. None, and I mean NONE of the other old iron body Singer domestics could even come close to that. That includes classes 15 and 66.

[kgg]

Which parts were replaced? I rebuilt a couple of 127 and 128 over the years and like Wiz when the machines were done they worked like the day they came off the assembly line. Something seems amiss.

kgg

[koreric75]

5 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Really? I serviced a few model 27, 28, 127 and 128 machines and they never had that problem afterwards. The biggest problem I encountered was securing the bobbin thread to wind a bobbin!

The last Singer model 127 I refurbished and sold could sew with #92 bonded nylon thread into a 10-12 ounce bridle leather strap. None, and I mean NONE of the other old iron body Singer domestics could even come close to that. That includes classes 15 and 66.

that is what i was wondering, i mispoke on this one, no parts were replaced, just a cleaning and service...it spun freely enough before hand, but now not as well.

 

4 hours ago, kgg said:

Which parts were replaced? I rebuilt a couple of 127 and 128 over the years and like Wiz when the machines were done they worked like the day they came off the assembly line. Something seems amiss.

kgg

i was wrong, the 78-1 got a replacement shuttle carrier, only to find out the shaft is bent as well...the 127 was just brought in as a basket case and reassembled.

[Orangeleather]

20 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

We discuss industrial leather sewing machines here. Your question might get a better response on a forum that deals with plastic body domestic machines. I'm sure somebody has tried sewing leather on such a machine and can advise you of how that went for them. My own experience with plastic body electronic domestic machines sewing 5 or 6 ounces of leather was parts flying across the room.

Now, if you were asking me about an old iron body Singer model 27 or 127, that's another story.

Thanks for replying Wiz, I guess my research will continue minus pieces flying across the room.

[YSRASupply]

Coming back to this thread as I'm narrowing in on a few options... I think I am going to go with a flat bed machine since all the work I do now are wallets and smaller goods.  It'd be nice to have a Cobra class 4 but I'm not certain I'd ever utilize that machine fully...  I also read some other thread where a guy wishes he had gotten a smaller machine cause the class 4 was tearing up his thinner leathers.

In any case, below are my options I'm considering both new and used...

If I buy new I am currently looking in to a few options:

• Highlead 318
• Cobra Class 18 or 20
• Consew 206rb-5
• Juki 1541s

If I buy used then I currently have these two on offer to me from a guy locally who deals industrial machines:

• Singer 331K105 for $395

• Tacsew T111-155 (Equipped with 110 volt servo motors) for $550

I've tried doing some research on both of these here and on the net... looks like the Tacsew might be better for leatherwork (might need to get a speed reducer?)...  Anyway, I could save a ton of $$$ right now if I go with one of the used ones but are either of these machines worth it?  The only sewing machine I've ever used is a brother home use machine so this will my first "real" sewing machine.  While it would be nice to save the money now I also don't want to be kicking myself a few months from now wishing I had just ponied up the cash to get the right machine that I can grow in to.

Anyway, hoping some of you experts here can chime in to give your opinions now that I've narrowed my choices down!

Edited February 8, 2019 by YSRASupply

[catskin]

My suggestion would be to take leather as many ply as you will need to sew.  Then add at least one more and test the machine. The reason for more is to be quite sure you will not be using it at the limit of what it can do.  Even try to see how much more it can do if pushing the limit.  For example if it will handle 2 more ply then you think you will be sewing that's good.  I do not know these machines, what I advise would apply to any machine.

[brmax]

I think its important in any of your choices above, a specific addition is helpful. This being a reducer pulley setup.

Any styles mentioned around here work and here on the forum are plenty of post explaining each style. Im now partial to the box style. 

With your list up there I have to gladly promote the juki. 

Good luck on your choice

 

Floyd

[kgg]

It is nice to save some money but. I would like catskin suggested go and test the used machines with your stuff plus a bit and see what happens. Which you should do as well with the new ones you listed. The Juki has a safety clutch but only handles 138 max thread while the Cobra's handles max thread 207. I don't know what the Consew and Highlead will handle. The Highlead is a walking foot probably not a big deal but the others are compound feed machines. I would seriously look at the Juki 1541S. If you are planning on a new machine Buy ONCE, Cry ONCE.

kgg

 

[luxuryluke]

This is a great thread. I’m not usually good at puns, either. 

[YSRASupply]

Back again!  Sorry if it seems like I'm all over the place but I have had a chance to talk to a couple dealers and have been convinced that a medium duty cylinder arm machine with flat bed conversion table is the way to go.

That being said my choices are down to 3 options:

1. NEW Cobra Class 26 - From SLC
2. NEW Artisan 2618 - Direct from Artisan
3. Rebuilt Juki LS-341 - from Nickosew (includes leather package - speed reducer, edge guide, table, etc)

Was hoping to see if anyone could sway me in any direction on these machines?  Right now I'm leaning towards the Cobra Class 26 as it seems to tick all the right boxes for me for being able to sew light to mid weight leathers and has the flexibility to add on table for my flat items and use as cylinder for when I work my way up to bags/etc.

As always, thanks in advance to the helpful people of this forum!

[luxuryluke]

I've had a lot of thoughts similar to yours, @YSRASupply. I was lucky enough to recently find a nice used cylinder arm machine but have spent a lot of time looking at the Class 26 and their other similar offerings. The Artisan machines look interesting, too. Keep us updated.