Dull Weaver Master Tools Round Knife

[MrLentz]

Hello,

I purchased a Weaver Master Tools round knife a few months back and recently started cutting out some 8/9 oz veg tan using it. Didn't work too well so I ended up following the leather wrangler's video on sharpening the round knives using 1200 grit + 8000 grit diamond stones and a strop with green compound. After going through that sharpening process the knife cuts through leather like butter...for about 30 inches or so and then it slows down and considerable pressure is needed. I re-strop and it's great again for the same length. I then re-sharpened it over again spending much longer on the 8,000 grit and longer on the strop, but still have the same experience. The burr is gone after sharpening and I don't feel it after cutting the leather, so I don't think that would be the problem.

I've read through many posts about the new osborne and tandy knives using poor quality steel that wont hold the edge very long - but my question is - does anyone know if that also applies to the Weaver Master Tools round knife? My experience would say yes, though I am not 100% sure. I did place an order for a Leather Wrangler's knife but it is several months out so I may have to do with the one I got for now. Originally I thought the Master Tools were a step up from the regular tools which is why I bought it.

Thanks!

[bikermutt07]

Have you tried stropping after 1200? I have heard that most tools only hold a working edge at around 1000 grit. Any thing more is for show (or so "they" say).

Of course that number came from different wood workers, but I figure   it may apply here as well.

The edge may be rolling over at 8000 grit.

And I could be wrong, but it wouldn't hurt anything test it.

Edited February 9, 2019 by bikermutt07

[buzzardbait]

9 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

Have you tried stropping after 1200? I have heard that most tools only hold a working edge at around 1000 grit. Any thing more is for show (or so "they" say).

Of course that number came from different wood workers, but I figure   it may apply here as well.

The edge may be rolling over at 8000 grit.

And I could be wrong, but it wouldn't hurt anything test it.

I agree. That edge is too fine for the Weaver knife, The Leather Wranglers knife blade is thicker with a different angle on the edge. I have the weaver knife, I sharpen it on a razor hone and strop it and it cuts like a scalpel.

[MrLentz]

I am going to give that a shot today, thanks! I read through the Leather Wranglers booklet on sharpening (a good quick read on sharpening theory and how-to's for those new to it). In it they say the reason to go to higher grits like the 8,000 is that you are actually just polishing down the striations or grain cut into the metal from the lower grit stone. Each successive higher grit will of course polish it further creating smaller and smaller grooves that help the knife slice through leather.

That's the theory anyhow, in practice it definitely could be a bit different and dependent on many factors (blade thickness) as you guys mentioned.

Edited February 9, 2019 by MrLentz

[bikermutt07]

42 minutes ago, MrLentz said:

I am going to give that a shot today, thanks! I read through the Leather Wranglers booklet on sharpening (a good quick read on sharpening theory and how-to's for those new to it). In it they say the reason to go to higher grits like the 8,000 is that you are actually just polishing down the striations or grain cut into the metal from the lower grit stone. Each successive higher grit will of course polish it further creating smaller and smaller grooves that help the knife slice through leather.

That's the theory anyhow, in practice it definitely could be a bit different and dependent on many factors (blade thickness) as you guys mentioned.

And this is all correct, and even more so for the particular steel they are using. But if the Weaver still is just a bit softer, just that extra bit may remove microscopic ridges that hold the edge true. 

But! I could be totally blowing smoke outta my own butt. I'm just kind of guessing what's going on.

I don't really get technical in my knife sharpening. 

Some of my knives came so sharp, I just strip them regularly.

Others I have been able to get sharp enough for leather, which is pretty sharp. But, but I never found myself past 1500-2000 grit, and green stropping compound.

P.S. I either use sand paper or my Kalamazoo 1x 42 for sharpening.

Never was much use with a stone.

[MrLentz]

Thanks! Yeah - I just purchased a small 15 degree angle and 20 degree one to that can be rubber banded to the stone. At least I will have a guide now when starting each stroke. (before using the angle guide - I sharpened for about 45 minutes and still had the same results: sharp for about 24 inches of cutting...then not so much!).

I will be trying the angle guides once they get here - but now my question is this - did the weaver master tools round knife come with a primary bevel off of the main body...then a micro secondary bevel? Hopefully I didn't screw the edge up too much by trying different angles! I am assuming I should just use the 15 degree angle for a good 30 minutes and that should be a strong enough edge (totaling 30 degrees included)?

 

[YinTx]

We have a number of experts here on sharpening that may pipe up, or you could find them in the sharpening section.  @Art I believe does this kind of work, and may be able to provide some clarity.  Your angle could have a lot to do with it, you might consider a microbevel as well, which would allow a steeper angle to keep the edge from rolling.  Also, what is underneath your leather as you cut?  This can have a dramatic effect on the life of your edge - example if you are cutting with granite under your leather, (not saying you are, just example), don't expect to get too far without dulling your blade.  Also, what kind of leather are you cutting?  As I understand it, some of the newer less expensive leathers have a kind of clay mixture worked into them (to make the surface look pretty) that can dull a blade fast.

YinTx

Edited February 11, 2019 by YinTx

[GRod]

On 2/9/2019 at 12:05 PM, bikermutt07 said:

Others I have been able to get sharp enough for leather, which is pretty sharp. But, but I never found myself past 1500-2000 grit, and green stropping compound.

P.S. I either use sand paper or my Kalamazoo 1x 42 for sharpening.

Never was much use with a stone.

Wait, wait, wait, wait...  one...  second...  You mean I can get things functionally sharp with my belt sander? 

I have an older Jet combination model with a 1x42 belt and 8" disc; I bought it years ago when I had a small custom golf club operation - it's a huge help in finishing ferrules.  I quit golf clubs long ago and have been eyeballing that thing and wondering if it was worth dedicating the space in my garage.  Using it to sharpen tools never occurred to me! (As Forrest Gump once said, "I may not be a smart man...")

I too am no *&^%$ good with a stone. I spent hours working on the swivel knife that came in my Tandy kit, and ended up finally getting a workable edge with sandpaper and a strop.  I'm expecting my Japanese skiving knife and some pricking irons from GoodsJapan any day now and I've had more than a little anxiety about keeping things sharp.  The thought of trying to sharpen a round knife with stones is about enough to give me night sweats.

So is something like this enough to get me to town?

[chrisash]

Sharpy's are your best friend in sharpening blades, you can see exactly where you are taking off the steel

[bermudahwin]

Doh!

I have spent ages looking for a product called sharpy, that helps you strop...

Time to stop work.

H

Edited February 12, 2019 by hwinbermuda

[JerseyFirefighter]

To add to some of these guys comments. The difference between a weaver knife and a handmade round knife from some of the go-to names (along with the price tag) is night and day. the tips on my weaver knife started to bend easily. I've purchased one and have been sitting on an order for two more for almost a year. Its a hard pill to swallow but man, what a difference between blade quality/durability. 

[bikermutt07]

8 hours ago, GRod said:

Wait, wait, wait, wait...  one...  second...  You mean I can get things functionally sharp with my belt sander? 

I have an older Jet combination model with a 1x42 belt and 8" disc; I bought it years ago when I had a small custom golf club operation - it's a huge help in finishing ferrules.  I quit golf clubs long ago and have been eyeballing that thing and wondering if it was worth dedicating the space in my garage.  Using it to sharpen tools never occurred to me! (As Forrest Gump once said, "I may not be a smart man...")

I too am no *&^%$ good with a stone. I spent hours working on the swivel knife that came in my Tandy kit, and ended up finally getting a workable edge with sandpaper and a strop.  I'm expecting my Japanese skiving knife and some pricking irons from GoodsJapan any day now and I've had more than a little anxiety about keeping things sharp.  The thought of trying to sharpen a round knife with stones is about enough to give me night sweats.

So is something like this enough to get me to town?

Yep, that will totally get you started. Keep in mind that there is a learning curve. 

I started with all the cheap pocket knives I could never sharpen. Then cheap kitchen knives.

After that I brought it up to work and have been keeping my EDC knife sharp. I can sharpen punches and chisels with it too.

I haven't put my Knipshield's to it though. I only use a piece of leather and rouge on those.

[YinTx]

I picked up an old (was old 25 years ago when purchased in France) head knife the previous owner claims is a Blanchard with no markings.  I have cleaned it up, and despite the expected surface pitting, it cleaned up nice.  I have spent the last 2 HOURS honing it on a diamond plate, it is hard metal.  I have just begin to pull up a burr.  This is one of those instances where mechanical assistance would have been nice.  This is opposed to almost all the other new blades I have that shed steel on the diamond plate no problem.  I have a feeling it is going to be a great knife that holds its edge really well.  Now I just have to be able to justify keeping it with all the other knives I've been collecting.   Sadly, I may have to put er up for sale.

YinTx