This MUST be a Joke!! ...Nope!

[Tugadude]

To me the frustration is that when a warning becomes so pervasive that most folks ignore it, then is loses all validity.  Does anyone pick up the hack saw and put it back on the shelf after seeing the warning on the package?  Doubt it.

 

[LatigoAmigo]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

To me the frustration is that when a warning becomes so pervasive that most folks ignore it, then is loses all validity.

I can see that this really bothers you, and you are right, it makes no sense whatsoever. The headache for me is trying to buy decent glues, dyes and finishes. Most of what is available in California is "eco-friendly" but not as good as what is available across the country.

Edited March 20, 2019 by LatigoAmigo

[Tugadude]

It doesn't REALLY bother me, just frustrating and I'll explain why.  When I worked for a global chemical manufacturer I was invited to be a member of the safety team for a time.  I noticed that behaviors in regards to safety were all over the board.  Some employees took it seriously, most didn't.  There was definitely a "boy who cried wolf" thing going on.  Most people didn't think our emails and informational campaigns pertained to them.  We even tried to broaden our safety messages to include hazards in your home, but those seemed to fall on deaf ears too.

In the end, I realized that messaging is difficult and it is easy for the target audience to tune out.  Some messages were "read" for 0.17 seconds.  The recipient, opened and closed the email immediately just so that it appeared to have been read.  Shame.

[Tugadude]

5 minutes ago, LatigoAmigo said:

I can see that this really bothers you. The headache for me is trying to buy decent glues, dyes and finishes. Most of what is available in California is "eco-friendly" but not as good as what is available across the country.

As a former employee of a major construction chemicals manufacturer, I can feel your pain.  Products that we sold the heck out of in other states were verboten in California.  Then it spread somewhat to Utah.  Parts of the Midwest also are enacting stricter standards on VOC's and other ingredients.

We developed and introduced products to try and satisfy the customer's needs, but at the end of the day they were  a pale comparison to the "standard" formulations.  Some were as good, but the substitution of key ingredients made them more costly.  

[bermudahwin]

Not just for us, but for farmers around the world too; I have been using RoundUp for years and years and years, but then I soooo miss toluene based glues. (Oh happy days...)

DUI just on the way home from a normal working day

H

[Matt S]

40 minutes ago, hwinbermuda said:

I soooo miss toluene based glues. (Oh happy days...)

DUI just on the way home from a normal working day

Howstik 441 from Abbey should keep you pretty happy then Harry  It works great on waxy leathers and is more economical than Evostik.

[bermudahwin]

Cheers Matt,

I sense another Abbey order coming on.

H

[YinTx]

2 hours ago, Tugadude said:

In the end, I realized that messaging is difficult and it is easy for the target audience to tune out.  Some messages were "read" for 0.17 seconds.  The recipient, opened and closed the email immediately just so that it appeared to have been read.  Shame.

This was my issue when I said " If everything is a warning, then nothing becomes important."  From now on, every time I see a Prop 65 warning, I just think to myself "oh, its that crappy law that makes people put stickers on everything" and I promptly ignore it.  And if I think that, what is everyone else thinking?  I can see it serving a future purpose then, in which they decide that everything with a Prop 65 warning should be made unavailable since everyone agreed it is hazardous enough to warrant a sticker.  If it sounds unlikely, try and find some glues and dyes in CA.

YinTx

[Tugadude]

2 hours ago, YinTx said:

This was my issue when I said " If everything is a warning, then nothing becomes important."  From now on, every time I see a Prop 65 warning, I just think to myself "oh, its that crappy law that makes people put stickers on everything" and I promptly ignore it.  And if I think that, what is everyone else thinking?  I can see it serving a future purpose then, in which they decide that everything with a Prop 65 warning should be made unavailable since everyone agreed it is hazardous enough to warrant a sticker.  If it sounds unlikely, try and find some glues and dyes in CA.

YinTx

Yes, you said it very well.  But hey, at least somebody is profiting off of it!......

 

[Samalan]

17 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

This is not someone trying to be funny; it is a requirement in your State that ANYTHING that contains any material or substance that is on the CA hit list of items is required to have this warning.  In fact, I have come to the conclusion that living in the State of California is known to cause cancer or any other type of serious medical condition.  This is the only State that has a restriction that restricts another restriction just because they can't do anything worthwhile in Sacramento aside from create wasteful legislation that has no other purpose than to stifle an economy.

Well said and thank you for your service .

[Tugadude]

21 hours ago, hwinbermuda said:

Not just for us, but for farmers around the world too; I have been using RoundUp for years and years and years, but then I soooo miss toluene based glues. (Oh happy days...)

DUI just on the way home from a normal working day

H

Speaking of which, I just saw this today on Linked In...

Bayer’s stock was jolted for a second time in less than a year after a jury in San Francisco determined the company’s Roundup weed killer caused a man’s cancer. Bayer lost a similar case in August that resulted in a $289 million verdict, which a judge reduced to $78.5 million. The German company acquired Roundup last year by purchasing Monsanto, an acquisition that “has now become its biggest potential liability,” says The Wall Street Journal, as it faces 11,200 lawsuits.

[bermudahwin]

7 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Speaking of which, I just saw this today on Linked In...

Bayer’s stock was jolted for a second time in less than a year after a jury in San Francisco determined the company’s Roundup weed killer caused a man’s cancer. Bayer lost a similar case in August that resulted in a $289 million verdict, which a judge reduced to $78.5 million. The German company acquired Roundup last year by purchasing Monsanto, an acquisition that “has now become its biggest potential liability,” says The Wall Street Journal, as it faces 11,200 lawsuits.

Yup, that's the bunny I was referencing

[Tugadude]

I'm in St. Louis, where Monsanto is headquartered and news like this isn't good for the locals.  

[bermudahwin]

They're huge employers in my family's hometown too, bad news all round.

[JazzBass]

On 3/19/2019 at 6:50 PM, timesofplenty said:

On 3/19/2019 at 1:06 AM, JazzBass said:

That should be the warning for the California State legislature.

how about leaving lame political comments off the forum  

First of all, it was a joke that was just too tempting.
Second...
This stuff effects all of us. Unless we want to have what we do eventually regulated or even outlawed based upon some inane, extremest policies, we had better pay attention to what we are paying for.

Maybe I should have put this in "off topic", since the warning is not really part of leather work per se - but beyond that...ease up a bit, my friend. Realistically, my "lame political comment" could only bother the indoctrinated.

Back to the bench...with my new knife

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by JazzBass

[NVLeatherWorx]

On 3/19/2019 at 9:18 PM, LatigoAmigo said:

If that was the case, we would have the warning on everything we purchase, and that is simply not the case. I buy tools all the time and have never seen the warning on any of them. You might want to know that CA is a fairly large piece of real estate, and not every locale is in lock-step with Sacramento... think State of Jefferson. 

Beg to differ with you on that.  I saw some doors today in my local Lowe's store and right on the packaging was a notice from the manufacturer that stated they are required by California Law to put the Prop 65 warning on everything that they make; we are talking about a wooden door that is unfinished but they have to post the Prop 65 information on everything that they make because California says so.  I even have this damn warning on a bag of Pure Organic Cocoa Butter that I ordered and California says that is contains an ingredient known to the State of California to cause Cancer; how much Cancer can Cocoa Butter cause?  Spoke to my Doctor about it and he didn't know of any cases directly related to the product so we are kind of stumped.  The Prop 65 warning is on everything that you can find in any store so that is why it is just easier to say that living in California is hazardous for you health; that is according to Prop 65.

[LatigoAmigo]

3 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

...right on the packaging was a notice from the manufacturer that stated they are required by California Law to put the Prop 65 warning on everything that they make; we are talking about a wooden door that is unfinished but they have to post the Prop 65 information on everything that they make because California says so.

Believe me, I would be as annoyed as you (probably more so) if that is what I was seeing, but I'm just not running across the warning here that often, and I'm at Home Depot at least three times a week. Because you are out of state, it could be that the manufacturers' lawyers are posting the warnings even when the items have not been properly evaluated, just to cover their butts.

3 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

why it is just easier to say that living in California is hazardous for you health

The purpose of Prop 65 was to help make living healthier for those of us living here. It was passed by the voters (not the legislature) in 1986 when the smog was still thick in Los Angeles and San Jose, a fair amount of herbicide was being sprayed in our forests, and people in general were worried about being exposed to unnecessary health hazards. Probably not a perfect solution, and now the warnings run amuck, as you've pointed out. 33 years later it is probably pretty hard to stop that train.  And certainly, no one here in California can do anything about the warning labels being applied in Nevada. So sorry!

Edited March 22, 2019 by LatigoAmigo

[robs456]

Ha! Soon there will be a ban on kitchen knives. You can only buy and use kitchen knives if you're a licensed kitchen worker, and then only in designated professional kitchens. All meat you buy will be pre-cut in-store. All veggies too. It's convenient and safe for us all. 

Aww, come on! 

As I always say, it's not the weapon that kills, it's the stupid human.

 

[bermudahwin]

1 hour ago, robs456 said:

Ha! Soon there will be a ban on kitchen knives. You can only buy and use kitchen knives if you're a licensed kitchen worker, and then only in designated professional kitchens. All meat you buy will be pre-cut in-store. All veggies too. It's convenient and safe for us all. 

Aww, come on! 

As I always say, it's not the weapon that kills, it's the stupid human.

 

That is not funny ...

ASDA, one of the UK's leading retailers/supermarkets (part of Walmart) is stopping selling single knives to anyone, just sets of knives, because of the hysteria at the moment regarding knife crime.

??? want a 3 inch paring knife ? no I cannot sell you that, but you can buy this set with an 8 inch boming knife and 6 inch kitchen knife.  What should you do with the unwanted 'blades'? I'm sure we at ASDA have no idea, sir, maybe there's a black market somewhere you could offload them.

Edited March 22, 2019 by hwinbermuda

[Matt S]

1 hour ago, hwinbermuda said:

That is not funny ...

ASDA, one of the UK's leading retailers/supermarkets (part of Walmart) is stopping selling single knives to anyone, just sets of knives, because of the hysteria at the moment regarding knife crime.

??? want a 3 inch paring knife ? no I cannot sell you that, but you can buy this set with an 8 inch boming knife and 6 inch kitchen knife.  What should you do with the unwanted 'blades'? I'm sure we at ASDA have no idea, sir, maybe there's a black market somewhere you could offload them.

Supposedly it's because the singles get nicked regularly whereas it's a little more difficult to tuck a block under yer Adidas jacket. It's not rocket science how to stop this "problem" -- put the singles in a locked cabinet where a member of staff has to take it out when you ask for it. They already have some pretty effective measures at stopping you nicking a packet of smoked salmon or a bagload of mobile phones (otherwise they'd go out of business PDQ). I suspect that there's been some confidential discussions of cost-benefit analysis. Too much time/effort/aggro for their staff to actually effect simple and reasonable shrinkage controls. Plus if they don't have any £3 single crappy knives to sell you'll be forced to buy the £25 set of crappy knives if you want/need one. Increased ATV, that'll keep the bean counters happy.

[fredk]

1 hour ago, hwinbermuda said:

That is not funny ...

ASDA, one of the UK's leading retailers/supermarkets (part of Walmart) is stopping selling single knives to anyone, just sets of knives, because of the hysteria at the moment regarding knife crime.

??? want a 3 inch paring knife ? no I cannot sell you that, but you can buy this set with an 8 inch boming knife and 6 inch kitchen knife.  What should you do with the unwanted 'blades'? I'm sure we at ASDA have no idea, sir, maybe there's a black market somewhere you could offload them.

 

8 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Supposedly it's because the singles get nicked regularly whereas it's a little more difficult to tuck a block under yer Adidas jacket. It's not rocket science how to stop this "problem" -- put the singles in a locked cabinet where a member of staff has to take it out when you ask for it. ...

As usual in the UK, N.I. has different laws. The ban on knives is already in force - although not really enforced. You have to be over 25 to buy a knife anywheres. ASDA, Tesco etc do sell single kitchen knives still but actually they shouldn't according to N.I. law, only certain places like hardware or sports fishing shops are allowed to sell knives. Name and address of buyer is supposed to be taken.

[Matt S]

6 minutes ago, fredk said:

 

As usual in the UK, N.I. has different laws. The ban on knives is already in force - although not really enforced. You have to be over 25 to buy a knife anywheres. ASDA, Tesco etc do sell single kitchen knives still but actually they shouldn't according to N.I. law, only certain places like hardware or sports fishing shops are allowed to sell knives. Name and address of buyer is supposed to be taken.

Well I'm glad that Norn Iron has been sorted out -- if that's what the politicos and PSNI are spending their time dreaming up and enforcing surely all the other problems must be squared away... 

[fredk]

The knife ban came into force about 25 - 30 years* ago but the plods only enforce it if a local council complain about a shop selling knives. Usually its ignored by most except the shops who really know the rules. I had to give my details on buying a set of three craft knives, plastic handles with 1.5 inch blades, at a hardware store where they know me.  Knife crime is rising here so I expect one of the regular clampdowns and raids for a few months then it'll be back to normal with the terrorists just using guns again.

* about the time the UK introduced that the carrying/possession of a blade over 4 inches was illegal

[Tugadude]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

The knife ban came into force about 25 - 30 years* ago but the plods only enforce it if a local council complain about a shop selling knives. Usually its ignored by most except the shops who really know the rules. I had to give my details on buying a set of three craft knives, plastic handles with 1.5 inch blades, at a hardware store where they know me.  Knife crime is rising here so I expect one of the regular clampdowns and raids for a few months then it'll be back to normal with the terrorists just using guns again.

* about the time the UK introduced that the carrying/possession of a blade over 4 inches was illegal

Thanks to all who posted about the issue of knife violence.  On this side of the pond there hasn't been a lot of attention on it.  Honestly, I sometimes feel the BBC does a much better job of delivering news than what we have over here.

Violence is violence and no matter the weapon of choice it is all bad.  Sorry for your miseries.  I hope the underlying causes are addressed over time and that things become more peaceful.

[YinTx]

2 hours ago, fredk said:

As usual in the UK, N.I. has different laws. The ban on knives is already in force - although not really enforced. You have to be over 25 to buy a knife anywheres. ASDA, Tesco etc do sell single kitchen knives still but actually they shouldn't according to N.I. law, only certain places like hardware or sports fishing shops are allowed to sell knives. Name and address of buyer is supposed to be taken.

And you can see how well all these "protection" laws work.  Knife violence on the rise.  Even China bans knives, and look what kind of result that has.  Knife attacks, etc.  If someone is going to commit a crime or commit violence, they are going to figure out a way to do it.  Infringing on my right to purchase a tool is not going to stop it, only reduce my rights.  Which is what a lot of politicians want.  An easier to control populace.  A whole lot of US history and a whole lot of sacrificed lives in the effort to prevent politicians and government from exerting this kind of control over individual freedoms.  Sadly we just hand it over again to their persistent efforts.

YinTx