Help with pricing

[cdthayer]

As an example of inflation, back around 1980 before I was making my own belts, I had a couple of belts made for my wife and I that had our CB handle names on the back. All hand-made with a floral pattern, cut-out letters in back with bright blue backing leather beneath, antiqued finish, and buckstitched with white lace.  I think they cost me $40 each, which was sort of expensive for us at that time.

I just ran the 1980 $40 amount through an online inflation calculator, and it said that $40 has become $131 in 2019.

And don’t forget to figure in more labor cost now that everyone’s wages will be going up with the House of Representatives passing a $15/hour minimum wage for everyone this week.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[TonyRV2]

8 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Yes, there IS a reason.  Rather like the emperor's new clothes.... find a bunch of people (market) who are ignorant enough (don't know any better) to buy something BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE SAID SO, regardless of quality (many of these are bought site unseen) because somebody will be impressed that you have it (insecure). 

I understand Elvis' used underwear sold at an insane amount at auction.  That doesn't make me want one, and I was NOT bidding

 

Dang...I didn't hear about the Elvis auction...could've made 15 or 20 bag liners with those. 

[chuck123wapati]

5 hours ago, cdthayer said:

I think that inflation plays a large part in what carved and/or sewn leather should cost today compared to 60 years ago.  I just don't know the answer to the actual cost comparison, unless you run the numbers through an online inflation calculator.  That would require knowing exactly what an item sold for back then, and that may be hard to determine.  I've not ever done that, but it might be interesting....

CD in Oklahoma

So does the market! sometimes leather is in sometimes its not! Leather was far more sought after in the western look back then, now maybe the money is in biker stuff, your cb handle story is a perfect example of trends that drive the market, Stohlman may not have done any better than us if he were in our time. But HE had a name and still has a name and his floral carvings would sell for more simply because of that, quality of leather wouldn't matter. The biggest  variable in leatherwork or any of the crafts and probably the most problematic =when your work quits being  just functional and becomes art, how do you price an artistic piece comparative to other people artistic endeavors? People buy products for a number of reasons, that run the course from frugality to just spending for spending sake everything in between. I think that's the best reason to pick a market, plan on selling to frugal people , rich people, bikers, whatever but don't consider others out of that target group as potential buyers. Your target group has to be able to support you and your competition by itself. What people paid back in the day is inconsequential to many other variables have changed.

[JLSleather]

On 7/19/2019 at 6:02 PM, chuck123wapati said:

But HE had a name and still has a name and his floral carvings would sell for more simply because of that, quality of leather wouldn't matter.

So you think if we just put your belt and Al's belt side by side on a bench, and showed them to the same people, and didn't tell anybody who made them, people would be inclined to buy YOURS?  Perhaps, but IF that's true and they don't buy it when you remove the name, then he's selling HIS NAME, not really selling the leather.  Hey, I "get" that too ... I might buy something belonged to Elvis - not that I WANT it, but that I know there's somebody out there who will PAY MORE for it (I'm flippin it).

On 7/19/2019 at 6:56 AM, TonyRV2 said:

Well JL...if you cater to the 'ebay and walmart' crowd' then you are absolutely correct. Then you need to compete with the with the prices offered at ebay and walmart. In my opinion, that is also a losing proposition. ... But I'll say this, when the right customer sees that they can have a hand crafted quality 100% leather handbag for under 500 bucks (some charge more, but this is my 'formula' price) they are happy to get such a deal. Again, the key is to target the right customers, which for a small timer like myself can take many years to cultivate.

Strange, this.  I don't recall saying anything about either of those selling venues.  But I would be interested in a link to your bags "under $500" -- just so I know what $500 is getting these days.  I made a lot of TOOLED bags in the 80's for quite a bit less than $500, though there weren't that many around who could match them. 'Course, that was when $6/hour was a wage ...

 

BUT all of this is INTENDED to answer the guy's original question (remember?).  Keep in mind that at some point your work IS going to be compared to other work.  Some really is good.  Some really is a lot of hype and noise.  The world is getting faster, and more view-able, and that has not been good for some -- easier and easier to COMPARE ITEMS.

There are many who love to click a button on their phone, and get something at their door by tomorrow.  Some won't purchase anything if it isn't "free shipping".  Some KNOW it's not top quality, but they'd rather have IN THE HAND than the one they KNOW is better by next week.  Some will buy something they know isn't quality, JSUT BECAUSE their friend bought one and they're TERRIFIED of being "the one who doesn't have that".  Fair enough - guy can do what he wants with his money.  Just information regarding pricing your goods.

[chuck123wapati]

45 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

So you think if we just put your belt and Al's belt side by side on a bench, and showed them to the same people, and didn't tell anybody who made them, people would be inclined to buy YOURS?  Perhaps, but IF that's true and they don't buy it when you remove the name, then he's selling HIS NAME, not really selling the leather.  Hey, I "get" that too ... I might buy something belonged to Elvis - not that I WANT it, but that I know there's somebody out there who will PAY MORE for it (I'm flippin it).
 

Actually I was talking about ALs work in the context of trends in the market. Then vs, now,. I don't consider myself nearly as good and I'm sure no one else would either. Most young folk buying leather wouldn't.t know Stholmans name from anyone else's unless they googled it. Now leather crafters or collectors seeing his name would buy it just because they knew who he was.

[imaginatus]

I think there's value in both what JL and Tony V are saying.

It's true that prices are ultimately what buyers and sellers agree to. Basic economics. The time, materials, overhead, etc. that went into an item don't determine what the selling price will be in practice. 

But the exercise of calculating those costs is useful, because it tells you what your break-even point is. If you don't know what it costs you to make something, you're not going to be in business very long.

It's also good to remember that "value" or "worth" are subjective ideas. The fancy brand name might not be "worth" the premium price to me or you, but it is to some, which is fine for them (as long as they can really afford it.) The difference is that some people place "value" on things like brand names, rarity, or celebrity. Others don't. Different strokes is all it is.

Ultimately we have to be able to communicate the value of what we sell - both actual, functional value and perceived value. And we need to focus on those who match and appreciate that value.

Cheers

[NVLeatherWorx]

On 7/15/2019 at 11:50 AM, Kolton45 said:

What do you use to collect money PayPal or one of those new apps they have? Cause like I said most of my orders are from social media so I dont typically see the people until pick up

In your case it would be best to send a potential client a PayPal Invoice (you need to have a PayPal Business Account though) and they can pay it online.  Always get at least 50% deposit on ALL custom items and if the item is going to be personalized (name, initials, special saying) get 100% up front before you even cut leather.

Regarding the price you still need to think like a business and not just a hobbyist.  Businesses operate with the purpose of making a profit so that they can continue to make things to sell; hobbyists just make stuff and then slap a price on it that barely covers materials which results in customers thinking that businesses are just over-charging them.  I operate a business and my pricing reflects my time, materials, overhead, and also my experience and knowledge which has been gained over the past 40 plus years of doing this as a profession.  Don't cater to the price point that a customer is willing to pay as they do not know what it takes to make an item and we don't get our supplies from Walmart or on Rollback pricing programs.  You are the Maker and Artist so you set the price based on the formula that works for you.

There are several threads within these forums that cover this topic so all you have to do is conduct a simple search for the topic and then get ready to read various viewpoints and methods; find the one that fits YOU as the creator.

[bathwalter]

My husband is also engaged in leatherwork and also does it as a hobby. Often we post his work on Instagram and sometimes there are people who are ready to take it to themselves. My husband also didn't know how to establish payment for his products, because he didn't do it professionally. And we decided this question this way: we give the details for payment but don't call the price. Those people who appreciate this work, transfer us the fee that they can or want to thank his work.

[bathwalter]

On 10/2/2019 at 11:53 AM, bathwalter said:

My husband is also engaged in leatherwork and also does it as a hobby. Often we post his work on Instagram and sometimes there are people who are ready to take it to themselves. My husband also didn't know how to establish payment for his products, because he didn't do it professionally. And we decided this question this way: we give the details for payment but don't call the price. Those people who appreciate this work, transfer us the fee that they can or want to thank his work.

Moreover, we also sell what I decorate with embroidery. Such a family of needlework In truth, my interest in embroidery was born after I started a blog about sewing and embroidery machines.
Why am I writing all this? Do not be afraid to tell people about your successes in any hobby and if it is a really good job - there will be a buyer for it

[mikesc]

Quote

Why am I writing all this?

To promote your affiliate blog ?..Amazing the spate of new "members" who have joined recently and spam/promote (with what reads like disjointed "bot written text") their affiliate sites, or the online courses "that have helped them so much" within their first 3 posts..

Nice try.

Some of us have been dealing with spammers since before the most recent crop of them and spambot herders were born.

Quote

In truth, my interest in embroidery was born after I started a blog about sewing and embroidery machines.

Became interested in embroidery after starting an affiliate blog as an expert about embroidery machines..Hmmm Little problem with the "time line" there..Expensive machines, embroidery machines, the affiliate commission on a sale after a click through from your post by a member or reader here is good.. "N'est-ce pas"

Edited October 4, 2019 by mikesc