English Bridle Questions

[Hardrada]

Well, I'm about to make some belts out of 10 oz. W&C black English bridle, and as I was running tests on it I came up with a few things:

1) Troublesome Edge finish: it seems that the edge coat is coming off after applying the gum trag and slicking, no matter which dye I use; the left is Giardini Max Edge Pro (no primer and only one coating), and on the right you have Edge Kote (one coating, sanding with 400 grit, second coating):

Any ideas to prevent this or to properly dye the edges? What are you fellows using?

 

2) What's the best finish, if any, for this kind of leather. I applied Leather Balm with Atom Wax, Resolene w/water @50-50, and Aussie Leather conditioner to three different patches and I couldn't notice any difference really from the 'raw' product. It's my understanding that English bridle has already been treated with waxes or oils from the tannery, so maybe no finishing is needed?

Thanks in advance.

[Alexis1234]

My edges look the same as yours. I've gone thru 3 sides of their dark brown English bridle this summer and have not been happy with the edges.  As far as top coat, I'm having good luck with thinned Resolene. 

[terrymac]

Quit using the gum trag, it will not allow the edge coating to adhere to the leather.  If you using an edge coating, you also do not need to slick.  Just get it smooth with fine sand paper.  If you apply more than one coat, you will need to either sand or apply heat between the coats

Hope this helps,

Terry

Edited October 4, 2019 by terrymac
Mis spell

[Hardrada]

Just now, terrymac said:

Quit using the gum trag, it will not allow the edge coating to adhere to the leather.  If you using an edge coating, you also do not need to slick.  Just get it smooth with fine sand paper.  If you apply more than one coat, you will need to either sand or apply heat between the coats

Hope this helps,

Terry

Even if the gum is applied AFTER the two coatings?

I know the gum trag is s'posed to seal the edge and no coating will penetrate afterwards, hence I was applying it almost last.

My process is as follows: trim/glass edges, bevel, Edge Kote, let dry, sand with 400 grit, apply second coating of Edge Kote, let dry, apply gum trag, slick, apply wax, burnish.

Not getting argumentative; I'm asking because I don't know.

If you don't slick but sand after coating, what grit do you use? 600? 1200?

When you speak of applying heat, do you mean using a hot burnish machine kind of thing?

Thanks!

[YinTx]

12 minutes ago, Hardrada said:

Even if the gum is applied AFTER the two coatings?

I know the gum trag is s'posed to seal the edge and no coating will penetrate afterwards, hence I was applying it almost last.

My process is as follows: trim/glass edges, bevel, Edge Kote, let dry, sand with 400 grit, apply second coating of Edge Kote, let dry, apply gum trag, slick, apply wax, burnish.

Not getting argumentative; I'm asking because I don't know.

If you don't slick but sand after coating, what grit do you use? 600? 1200?

When you speak of applying heat, do you mean using a hot burnish machine kind of thing?

Thanks!

I've not used gum trag with the edge paint, seems counter productive to me.  If you want it to be shiny, just polish with a bit of wax and rub after the last coat of edge paint.

I'll usually use 150 or 220 grit for sanding.  It needs to be pretty rough for the next coat to adhere well.  I don't usually sand the final coat.

I've used a soldering iron in the past to heat, but on low setting.  Just enough to get the paint to melt into the leather, not to burn.  First coat should go on rough sanded leather also, same reason:  allows it to adhere well.  Just my experience, others have more expertise on edges around here if they chime in.

And for bridle leather, I've had good experience just applying dye to the edges, then slick/sand/slick using water then gum trag.  No need for paint.

YinTx

[Hardrada]

Thanks for the input. Keep 'em coming.

I'd rather not dye but this leather isn't dyed through, there's a clear core that I don't think it'll look good on the finish product. Not really wanting an Oreo look.

[fredk]

Try: smoothing as usual with your 400g then use 600, 800 and then 1000/1200.

Try mixing some beeswax with shoe polish and apply that. Buff / slick it in real fast with a piece of denim or linen - you need to build up friction heat to soften the wax & polish to get it soft, into the leather and get it nice and smooth

[Matt S]

English bridle doesn't conform to the usual methods of edge finishing you might use with tooling leather. It's slightly compressed during manufacture and often has been thoroughly greased, so doesnt absorb liquids in the way you might expect. Edge paints generally are  not thin enough to absorb or bond.

 

After cutting and rounding the edges you can use a normal alcohol based leather dye. However I find this makes the burnishing stage more difficult. Most common is to mix a little water based dye or water soluble dye powder into your edge burnishing mixture. Forget the gum tarawotsit. What's most effective is essentially any water based glue. Traditionally rabbit or hide glue, but there are many others available. Gum Arabic (used to be used as kids liquid glue for paper, or used in cake decorating) works quite well,as does white PVA. Wallpaper paste gives a satiny not-quite-shiny effect. Experimentation with some offcuts is needed. Whatever you use mix it up with some water and swab the edge. Give it a few seconds to absorb then wipe off the excess and start rubbing with a piece of wood or bone. Concentrate on a 4" length and go fast. Persist while the edge goes through a slightly greyish stage and keep going while it gets a bit grabby until you reach a good shine but do stop once you got a shine -- don't over do it, it'll only get worse. The really deep shine comes when you rub beeswax into it and buff off, preferably after letting it dry thoroughly.

If you really want to sand the edges do it after you've done the first burnish. Sand, then apply more solution and rub again. Think like finishng a good piece of wood -- the first coat raises the grain a little and firms it up. It does result in a very smooth edge but if your leather is good to start with and you cut your leather accurately I dont really think it's necessary.

Glue to water ratio is by experiment. If you can't get a good shine quickly you need more glue. If it doesnt penetrate deep enough add more water. It's usually the thickness between 5% milk and single cream.

 

As to finish, as you say the leather is prefinished. Most of the traditional stuff we get over here is covered in grease (wax, oil and tallow) front and back, which needs rubbing off with a rag. I usually rub in some Fiebings Aussie to help get rid of the last bits of wax, give it a good shine and make sure it's supple.

[jcuk]

Have a look at this 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUV5-dOjVFA

 

hope this helps

JCUK