what is handmade?

[chuck123wapati]

Just wondering what the thoughts are on "handmade" . Is sewn on machine considered handmade or does it disqualify the item since most factory made stuff is sewn on a machine. How about machine cut. What are the parameters for calling your work handmade?

[paloma]

54 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

Just wondering what the thoughts are on "handmade" . Is sewn on machine considered handmade or does it disqualify the item since most factory made stuff is sewn on a machine. How about machine cut. What are the parameters for calling your work handmade?

Easy,

made with your hands only. If i use a sewing machine to sew i can t tell hand stitched.

Edited October 11, 2019 by paloma

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, paloma said:

Easy,

made with your hands only.

you mean hand tools only? That's my opinion also but have talked to some who disagree and cite some grey areas for example a non motorized sewing machine or clicker press? 

[LatigoAmigo]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

What are the parameters for calling your work handmade?

Big question, because most leather is made in a tannery using machines. So, if the leather itself is not "handmade" does that mean, no matter what process is used to make items from that leather,  that they cannot be considered handmade? Just a thought.

[chrisash]

I would suggest in this modern age it would be described as " something you made from the basic to a finished product" meaning in our area, from leather and various components to a finished product

[chuck123wapati]

32 minutes ago, LatigoAmigo said:

Big question, because most leather is made in a tannery using machines. So, if the leather itself is not "handmade" does that mean, no matter what process is used to make items from that leather,  that they cannot be considered handmade? Just a thought.

so then I would also have to make my hand tools, thread  etc. ? 

[Tugadude]

Question has been tossed about in many threads.  Handmade can mean different things to different people but you asked what it means to us.  I think it means something that is made by someone mainly without use of high-production machinery.  Now that doesn't mean that if you use a motorized slicker it isn't handmade.  It also doesn't mean if you use a fileteuse it isn't handmade.  It doesn't mean if you cut your leather components out with a clicker it isn't handmade.  I doesn't mean if you use an airgun to apply dye and/or sealer it isn't handmade.  It doesn't mean that punching holes with a drill press nullifies it as being handmade.  But the basic work should be done by hand.  Handwork versus automation is a possible definition.  Handwork carries with it the notion of being "better" than something that is mass-produced.  That doesn't necessarily translate into reality.  It depends upon who is doing the handiwork and how good the machines are which produce the mass.

Is there a "back story" to your question.  Is someone stating that work is handmade and you question it due to their use of machinery.

See this link for various opinions.

 

2 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

so then I would also have to make my hand tools, thread  etc. ? 

You've uncovered part of the irony of the original question

[chuck123wapati]

19 minutes ago, chrisash said:

I would suggest in this modern age it would be described as " something you made from the basic to a finished product" meaning in our area, from leather and various components to a finished product

Don't factories, or those cheap labor sweat shops do that exact same thing?

[chuck123wapati]

3 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Question has been tossed about in many threads.  Handmade can mean different things to different people but you asked what it means to us.  I think it means something that is made by someone mainly without use of high-production machinery.  Now that doesn't mean that if you use a motorized slicker it isn't handmade.  It also doesn't mean if you use a fileteuse it isn't handmade.  It doesn't mean if you cut your leather components out with a clicker it isn't handmade.  I doesn't mean if you use an airgun to apply dye and/or sealer it isn't handmade.  It doesn't mean that punching holes with a drill press nullifies it as being handmade.  But the basic work should be done by hand.  Handwork versus automation is a possible definition.  Handwork carries with it the notion of being "better" than something that is mass-produced.  That doesn't necessarily translate into reality.  It depends upon who is doing the handiwork and how good the machines are which produce the mass.

Is there a "back story" to your question.  Is someone stating that work is handmade and you question it due to their use of machinery.

See this link for various opinions.

 

You've uncovered part of the irony of the original question

No back story at all and no ill intent I don't play those games lol! I want to know what I would consider my products to be and how to compare them to other leather products.  I am also curious as it seems to be a very grey area not just in leather work but other crafts as well. You have good points indeed but couldn't all those tools you mentioned be used in a high production setting as well? Thanks for the link.

[robs456]

That old thread...an oldie but a goody too.

At this moment I consider that if all assembly and decoration was made by hand, it's handmade.

Machine cut -OK (but borderline)
Machine sewn -Not handmade
Laser engraved -Not handmade, maybe 'hand assembled'?
Machine edged - OK (But borderline)
Edges machine sanded - OK, as long as you control the leather or the machine with your hands
Holes drilled - OK
Airbrush painted -OK, as long as you hold the airbrush...
Machine skived -Not handmade (really but you said?...-Well, just No OK.)
etc in absurdum...

Many people will disagree with this , especially those that cut and sew by machine but does the rest by hand. To each their own.
There might be a 'correct' answer to the question, but the way the leather goods market looks today it doesn't really matter anyway, the customers don't care. Unless it's mommy...

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by robs456

[Ken Nelson]

I build saddles,  and I have been building them for 20 years,  build quite a few.  I have been working leather for over 40 years.  I don't  use a clicker press as I don't do enough volume to warrant one.  I have noticed some shops that have several builders do use them, some well and some not well at all. Some still cut for the best saddle they can build and some just see how many pieces they can get out of a side- don't matter if it is the wrong part of the hide for the piece they are cutting.

I sew most of a saddle with a sewing machine.  Few hand sewers, percentage wise, make their seams as pretty as a sewing machine does.  But a few are super at it.   I also use an old sole crank skiver on certain parts of the saddle as it saves me quite a lot of time.

My saddles are considered "handmade" by the people riding them. If I were to take the time to skive and sew all of a saddle by hand,  I would not be able to sell these saddles for enough to keep the wolf off of the door.  I think if you are building leather products for a living or a good part of your living you will probably be using "cheaters'- sewing machine, skiver, splitter-which I have and use 3 of them.   I seriously doubt there will be 1 saddle at the National Finals Rodeo in Vegas this December that is completely hand sewn.  Same with the World Ranch Rodeo Finals in Amarillo, TX.  I have had a number of saddles being competed on at the WRRF in Amarillo for several years.   I have worked on saddles built by 3 different makers that are household names in the PRCA timed events and every one of them was sewn by a machine.

To me,  if you are a purist and want to look down on people that use these "cheaters" that is fine.  However,  in my opinion, it is a matter of craftsmanship. I have seen leather items completely made by hand that are JUNK!   I have seen completely handmade that are scary good, including the stitching.   Some of the nicest, best and most expensive saddles I have ever seen have been machine sewn and a couple of them were hand stitched and you had to look close to tell they were hand sewn. 

There is a world of difference between a "Real Good" handmade saddle and a good production saddle. The same is generally true of a lot of other products made of leather too.

[billybopp]

Maybe a better distinction than the term "hand made"  would be "single maker" - where a craftsperson sees the the whole process through from leather selection to finished product.

Just a thought

- Bill

[Frodo]

hand made is something mad by hand,  granted that sweat shops use sewing machines to turn out stuff

but the difference is, They are turning out production and not one of a kind items

So, In MY opinion,which if you add a dollar you can buy a cup of coffee,,hand made means an item that is not turned out in production form but made one at a time by a craftsman, not an hourly production employee

[JLSleather]

https://www.jlsleather.com/hand-made-well-made/

[Tugadude]

9 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

No back story at all and no ill intent I don't play those games lol! I want to know what I would consider my products to be and how to compare them to other leather products.  I am also curious as it seems to be a very grey area not just in leather work but other crafts as well. You have good points indeed but couldn't all those tools you mentioned be used in a high production setting as well? Thanks for the link.

I hope you didn't think I was accusing you of something.  Not my intent!  I was wondering if you saw someone selling goods as handmade and were questioning the validity.

There really are gray areas.  My point about the tools was to say that just because you use a powered device should not immediately disqualify a product as being handmade.  Burnishing can be done with a stick or a motorized wheel.  Does it matter? 

I cut the leather with a knife, dye it, sew it then burnish with a Dremel tool.  Is it suddenly not handmade?

https://www.bigcommerce.com/ecommerce-answers/how-define-handmade-items/

 

 

[YinTx]

I have often pondered this topic myself.  I believe it is too obfuscated and full of grey areas to succinctly define.  So for my own purposes, I let my customers know what my definition of hand made or hand crafted is, thus addressing what I believe to be the true crux of the matter:  avoiding deception.  

Items made en masse overseas and imprinted with a stamp here by hand and dropped into an Etsy shop as "handmade" are imho deceptive.  I want my customers to know what I do by hand, the types of tools I use, and where I use a production style machine when I sell an item as "hand crafted."

Or, I don't tell them anything and just sell an item and let my craftsmanship compete directly with everything else out there.  Doesn't always work - Clayton English Bridle leather belts with solid stainless steel buckles I made - not selling at $39.  Meh.  Maybe I need to price it like a Veblen good.

YinTx

[paloma]

the answer is in the question... Hand---------------made. all is made with your hands. hand tools make a hand work.

[chrisash]

At the end of the day the word "HANDMADE" is just a marketing message that has lost all meaning just like "High Quality", "Made in the USA" or UK, or any other country, (all countries have good bad and indifferent qualities of products)

The only time people use the words "Handmade" is often when they are trying to sell something, and trying to make it stand out from commercially made goods

[chuck123wapati]

10 hours ago, Tugadude said:

I hope you didn't think I was accusing you of something.  Not my intent! 

https://www.bigcommerce.com/ecommerce-answers/how-define-handmade-items/

 

 

Nope I understood your comment no worries here. Social media has made us all a little gun shy I think lol and quite often misunderstood. I agree with you r comment about hand power tools, often if a person is not good with them they can ruin an article much faster than you can wink an eye so the person is still in command of the operation and still doing it by "hand".

Edited October 12, 2019 by chuck123wapati
more comment

[chuck123wapati]

7 hours ago, paloma said:

the answer is in the question... Hand---------------made. all is made with your hands. hand tools make a hand work.

 

10 hours ago, YinTx said:

I have often pondered this topic myself.  I believe it is too obfuscated and full of grey areas to succinctly define.  So for my own purposes, I let my customers know what my definition of hand made or hand crafted is, thus addressing what I believe to be the true crux of the matter:  avoiding deception.  

Items made en masse overseas and imprinted with a stamp here by hand and dropped into an Etsy shop as "handmade" are imho deceptive.  I want my customers to know what I do by hand, the types of tools I use, and where I use a production style machine when I sell an item as "hand crafted."

Or, I don't tell them anything and just sell an item and let my craftsmanship compete directly with everything else out there.  Doesn't always work - Clayton English Bridle leather belts with solid stainless steel buckles I made - not selling at $39.  Meh.  Maybe I need to price it like a Veblen good.

YinTx

Yes I think personal ethics plays a big part in it. Obvious some hand powered tools would  disqualify a product no matter how much "hand" work was done , a belt embossing wheel for example. consumers would see the obvious pattern and dismiss the belt as machine made, however a hand tooled belt would be considered handmade even though all the rest of the crafting would be the same as the embossed belt.

[chuck123wapati]

7 hours ago, chrisash said:

At the end of the day the word "HANDMADE" is just a marketing message that has lost all meaning just like "High Quality", "Made in the USA" or UK, or any other country, (all countries have good bad and indifferent qualities of products)

The only time people use the words "Handmade" is often when they are trying to sell something, and trying to make it stand out from commercially made goods

I think you are right to a point, in the more modern countries it would be true in some countries however hand made is still how most things the poor folk use are made. many of our definitions are coming to be marketing messages, I always laugh at the car commercial that shows a steering wheel cover being hand stitched to the wheel people believe that crap or just go along with it I guess.

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, Frodo said:

hand made is something mad by hand,  granted that sweat shops use sewing machines to turn out stuff

but the difference is, They are turning out production and not one of a kind items

So, In MY opinion,which if you add a dollar you can buy a cup of coffee,,hand made means an item that is not turned out in production form but made one at a time by a craftsman, not an hourly production employee

I like that opinion it as good as any.

 

[Frodo]

2 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

I like that opinion it as good as any.

 

 

a TRUE handmade leather item , would by definition

be made using a flint knife and a deer bone as a needle

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, JLSleather said:

https://www.jlsleather.com/hand-made-well-made/

Interesting,  so to you the term handmade is an essentially useless term and all products stand only on quality of their build no matter the machine processes or human work involved?

[chuck123wapati]

6 minutes ago, Frodo said:

 

a TRUE handmade leather item , would by definition

be made using a flint knife and a deer bone as a needle

LOL I have done that, learning to knap was my big hang up as well as fleshing out a hide and brain tanning, sorry didn't make the bow or arrows that killed the deer. So does it still count?