a little history from my area.

[chuck123wapati]

Here is a bit of history from my area of Wyoming and probably a little unknow history of the leather trade for you folks to ponder. The leather work of prisoners, I live in the same town as the state penitentiary and it had a long history of leather work reaching back to territorial days. In the early years the prison system was very self sustaining, in that the prisoners would build or make almost everything they used. There was an honor farm that was an actual farm growing all the food and meat for the prisoners. They also made their cloths and of course their shoes also. the prison had a complete shoe shop and the trade, all the trades,  was taught to inmates by other inmates as back in the day there were no people working for the system unless they were guards all the work was done by inmate labor and a lead man was appointed to run the various shops, he was in charge of teaching the help and running whatever shop. In the inmates off times they could do hobbies to sell so a lot of them would do leather work or braid horse hair, make small wooden projects etc. Local people could buy this stuff at the front gate of the building, you can google our frontier prison to get a look at it if you like. As a kid I can remember seeing and hearing people talk about the leather work done, I remember the saddle shaped purses were the cats meow back then. Anyway in about 1985 a new prison was built and I went to work there as a maintenance tech, one of the first  as prior to this all the work was done by the inmates. Anyway there was room for a number of hobby shops in the new facility so the old timers who had hobbies got the shops, there were buckle making shop a couple leather shops, horse hair braiding, silversmithing, fly tying as well as many inmates still did art and stuff in their cells. There were also trades taught to the inmates , there was an upholstery shop, welding, machine shop, auto mechanics and carpentry shop, employees could take a vehicle in for example and have it totally rebuilt, painted and reupholstered for pennies above the cost of materials..  The frontier prison had a gift shop that was kept open then to the public for selling the hobby work as well many companies hired inmates to tie flies, I could buy a dozen of any type of fly for three bucks and as these boys tied thousands they were GOOOOD flies indeed. The leather work had by that time become very well known as through the years word of mouth made it  place to stop if you were traveling through. One fellow, I cant remember his name at the moment had one of the shops and had five or six other inmates working for him, he made thousands of belts bags purses etc, as well as horse hair items hat bands, halters, yes even holsters. They were taken to the gift shop in town and sold there. One of my jobs in the summer was to run a yard crew at the old prison in town so I saw first hand the amount of goods this fellow made an sold. Once a month people would come down from Jackson hole and literally buy every piece of leather and horse hair in the shop. This one shop made over 50 k a year and the inmate owner would send the money to his wife. This all came to an end when three inmates killed an officer trying to escape. All of the hobby shops were shut down and all of the inmates had to ship their stuff out of the prison or have it destroyed. That happened in the 90s and still years after people would call the prison to ask if the leather work or horse hair was still being done. If you google Tom Horn , he was an "enforcer" for the cattle companies, there is a picture of him braiding a rope out of horse hair while in prison. 

[Rbarleatherworks]

Love this ... Thanks for sharing Chuck

[Rhale]

Thanks for the history, loved the Tom Horn movie with Steve McQueen. Thanks Rodney 

[Frodo]

Interesting. .  Thanks for the history of your area. 

 

i worked on the Super max in Florence Colorado. also worked on 6 other prisons. Tried to work on them all. The law is. If you worked on it, they can not send you to it. LOL

 

[chuck123wapati]

17 hours ago, Frodo said:

Interesting. .  Thanks for the history of your area. 

 

i worked on the Super max in Florence Colorado. also worked on 6 other prisons. Tried to work on them all. The law is. If you worked on it, they can not send you to it. LOL

 

yw! lol good luck with that thought they would just put you on the maintenance crew. 

[Frodo]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

yw! lol good luck with that thought they would just put you on the maintenance crew. 

I roughed in the plumbing for the Travis county Correctional Complex New Kitchen.

We were working over time.  When we decided to knock off for the day, we found they had locked the construction gate.

So we started looking for a way to get out. We found a hole in the fence, slipped threw it and walked down the road to the guard shack. We told the Guard he needed to unlock the gate so we could get the Truck out.  He looked at as with a puzzled expression. Then asked, If you were locked inside how did not get out?

I pointed down the fence line and said. through that big hole in the fence. LOL

ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. He got on the radio and guards started coming from every where. No one had escaped but they were embarrassed as hell about a big hole in the fence.

 

[Tugadude]

Fascinating stuff!  Shame that it all came to a screeching halt.  

[Tugadude]

So I did a little googling on the prison and found some fascinating information.  If you have the time it is worth looking up.  Butch Cassidy spent some time in the Wyoming Frontier Prison back in the day, before he formed the Wild Bunch.

[Ferg]

Since I am older than most of you, eighty six in January 2020, I remember a lot of those things first hand.

My only connection with the Prison System was a number of years ago. One in Southern Ohio made wood Pallets. They weren't getting them out fast enough so they were looking for a small wood shop to make the parts for the pallets. The material would be supplied by a prison farm sawmill and brought to our shop. The material would be Cottonwood. Grows where it can get lots of water and is obviously dripping with moisture. Later, they decided to supply "Junk" Treated material. When still wet from treatment this stuff can rust most any metal it is aligned with.

We were very close to taking it on until I checked with some shops that were using the material.

Ferg

Edited December 17, 2019 by Ferg

[kgg]

Interesting stuff, but begs the question what do they get now as far as learning / doing a legit trade / skill or ?

kgg

[chuck123wapati]

8 minutes ago, kgg said:

Interesting stuff, but begs the question what do they get now as far as learning / doing a legit trade / skill or ?

kgg

Since then we have built another medium security prison, it has all the vocations there, as well here in the high security prison there is still welding, carpentry, and a textiles area where they make all the clothes for the system as well as machine embroidered stuff a huge kitchen and bakery, laundry etc. At the honor farm same thing but they also tame and sell wild horses and have a fire crew that fights forest fires.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Frodo said:

I roughed in the plumbing for the Travis county Correctional Complex New Kitchen.

We were working over time.  When we decided to knock off for the day, we found they had locked the construction gate.

So we started looking for a way to get out. We found a hole in the fence, slipped threw it and walked down the road to the guard shack. We told the Guard he needed to unlock the gate so we could get the Truck out.  He looked at as with a puzzled expression. Then asked, If you were locked inside how did not get out?

I pointed down the fence line and said. through that big hole in the fence. LOL

ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. He got on the radio and guards started coming from every where. No one had escaped but they were embarrassed as hell about a big hole in the fence.

 

lol that's funny and I don't doubt it a bit.when I first hired on one of my jobs was to take inmates and put in the Constantine wire around the facility as it had none at all , we had a few escapes by inmates cutting the fence wire before that, after we just followed the blood trail. once a bunch of em even tried to tunnel out like in the great escape lol the old tunnel is still there. Yea folks get kinda twitchy when they find holes in the fence. 

[chuck123wapati]

33 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

So I did a little googling on the prison and found some fascinating information.  If you have the time it is worth looking up.  Butch Cassidy spent some time in the Wyoming Frontier Prison back in the day, before he formed the Wild Bunch.

Old Butch is a local hero villian in these parts and rode this country frequently , my family homesteaded in the little snake river valley where he came through often and all the people knew him and the wild bunch. Years ago my dad was working for the museum out there and had the fortune of getting to clean up an old Winchester rifle that had been given to a local by Butch, It was a 38 40 if I remember right and I helped him clean it up for display man that was one sweet rifle, it is still on display out there and if you are ever in this neck of the woods go to their museum you wont regret the trip.https://www.littlesnakerivermuseum.com/home 

[chuck123wapati]

41 minutes ago, Ferg said:

Since I am older than most of you, eighty six in January 2020, I remember a lot of those things first hand.

My only connection with the Prison System was a number of years ago. One in Southern Ohio made wood Pallets. They weren't getting them out fast enough so they were looking for a small wood shop to make the parts for the pallets. The material would be supplied by a prison farm sawmill and brought to our shop. The material would be Cottonwood. Grows where it can get lots of water and is obviously dripping with moisture. Later, they decided to supply "Junk" Treated material. When still wet from treatment this stuff can rust most any metal it is aligned with.

We were very close to taking it on until I checked with some shops that were using the material.

Ferg

Very interesting indeed. when the first state prison was built here, the wardens were usually business men of some type and would set up and fund businesses and were legally able to use inmate labor at that time and pay them very little. Our fist pen had a broom shop that made the old grass brooms . later another warden started a shirt factory. I think maybe that type of prison work was what you ran into.

[Frodo]

I have always wanted to see that part of the country.  

That Butch gets Around.  

I renovated the Telluride co. Original bank into a coffee shop

what we found was kinda cool. they had a big ass bank vault in the bank and a small safe hid in the back.  The REAL money was kept in the little safe and day to day proceeds kept in the big vault. Butch Cassidy was said to have robbed that bank and only got the the money from the big vault

 

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, Frodo said:

I have always wanted to see that part of the country.  

That Butch gets Around.  

I renovated the Telluride co. Original bank into a coffee shop

what we found was kinda cool. they had a big ass bank vault in the bank and a small safe hid in the back.  The REAL money was kept in the little safe and day to day proceeds kept in the big vault. Butch Cassidy was said to have robbed that bank and only got the the money from the big vault

 

lol yea from all the places he is said to have been he woulda wore out a dozen horses a year and never got any robbing done. Cool story there!

 

[Arturomex]

That's interesting stuff, Chuck. Appreciate you taking the time to put it out there.

Some other interesting information about prison made saddle trees here: https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/70422-found-mcclellan-tree-maker-paper/

Regards,

Arturo

 

[chuck123wapati]

33 minutes ago, Arturomex said:

That's interesting stuff, Chuck. Appreciate you taking the time to put it out there.

Some other interesting information about prison made saddle trees here: https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/70422-found-mcclellan-tree-maker-paper/

Regards,

Arturo

 

thanks! very interesting info seems the cheap labor prison workforce business was nationwide back in the day!

[alpha2]

Heck, they don't always need a hole in a fence. I delivered a couple of dental chairs to Folsom in the '70's. Brought them in with a Chevy van. The boxes were plenty big enough to lay two or three cons in each. The guards lifted the hood, which was fairly tiny, took off the hub caps, checked the glove box, mirrored under the chassis, but never looked in the boxes, either coming in or going out! They had a nice old inmate help move the boxes into the clinic. I asked a guard what he was in for, they said he murdered his family, cut up the bodies and buried them in his back yard. Nicest old grandpa kinda guy you would ever want to meet. 

[bruce johnson]

     Prison work is still going strong in some areas. I sell tools to a few inmates. It is a bit of a process but can be done. Texas has a pretty big system - boots and stuff. One inmate is saving for a crank splitter for his cell. I expect he's pretty trustworthy to be allowed that. Duncan ran the saddle shop in a Colorado prison. Because their output went into interstate commerce the inmates there were required to be paid federal minimum wage. He said they were the most sought after jobs in the prison because of the pay and had minimal discipline issues. Biggest problem was if there was a lockdown your employees couldn't get to work. 

     I'd always liked the Deer Lodge MT hitched hair work. A couple years ago we toured the old prison and went to the craft store across from the old prison. Joe Benner had told me I needed to stop there. Leatherwork, bunch of hitched hair from keyfobs and bracelets to belts. The prisoners price their own work. Half goes to a crime victims relief fund, a fourth to the craft store for overhead, and they keep a fourth when something sells. They tag the items themselves and have a little description. Some are pretty funny. One key fob had a pink heart hitched into it. The tag read "Buy this for your sweetheart. Since I've been here mine dropped me. Maybe she's your sweetheart now". I bought a belt from a guy proudly  boasting "27 years experience!". We spent a couple hours in there and several hundred dollars. All the while I was piling things up I was saying to myself "Damn you, Joe Benner!". Good stuff.

     I saw a recent documentary on Deer Lodge. Besides the cattle setup and trades shops, they also do something interesting. Some inmates work in a phonebank and serve as fundraising telemarketers for outside groups. They make the calls and if anybody wants to donate to the group they are working for, they hand the call off to a supervisor who handles the credit card info. I hadn't thought of that before. They cant say where they are calling from. It kind of made me nicer to telemarketers now. That feller on the other end could be wearing a number and he's got nothing but time. I can spare a little time to be polite and wish him a good day. 

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

 That feller on the other end could be wearing a number and he's got nothing but time. I can spare a little time to be polite and wish him a good day. 

great info yea I think it helps those who want to help themselves out of that drug or booze induced hell they put themselves, and many others, through. Most are decent when they get clean, some need to be there forever.  You would be surprised where I have seen ex inmates that I know, almost all get out sooner or later and never forget when you are standing in line somewhere probably three out of ten behind your have felony records.

[Frodo]

here is a true story about a state mental hospital/prison

we were breaking concrete in the break room. [for new plumbing]

I huge sob walks up to a coke machine and puts his money in it.  it ripped him off

this dude bear hugged the machine, picked it up, and dropped it.  his coke came out

he laughed and walked off.  I told my helper to go get my 24'' pipe wrench 

he asked why?  I said if that crazy sob goes off.  aint nothing else gonna stop him

he had no idea how strong he was. looked like the guy on the green mile movie

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Frodo said:

here is a true story about a state mental hospital/prison

we were breaking concrete in the break room. [for new plumbing]

I huge sob walks up to a coke machine and puts his money in it.  it ripped him off

this dude bear hugged the machine, picked it up, and dropped it.  his coke came out

he laughed and walked off.  I told my helper to go get my 24'' pipe wrench 

he asked why?  I said if that crazy sob goes off.  aint nothing else gonna stop him

he had no idea how strong he was. looked like the guy on the green mile movie

LOl we had a guy worked on our inmate crew, for fun he would pick up the front end of our farmall tractor! One tough cookie had 6 nice scars in his chest from a 357, perfect group about 4 inches around, yea it didn't kill him but it did stop him after he bled out and passed out, he knew how strong he was. Here we would send the crazies to the state hospital and they would send em back, they weren't sentenced to the state hospital so couldn't keep them! But we had just as many "window lickers" we used to call em as thorazine makes people kinda goofy, but it does keep em from killing other people, had one beat the cell window out of his door with his fore head, it is about 6"x12" and 3/4 inch thick tempered glass. You don't wanna know the gross stuff some of these poor souls do to them selves as well as others. I worked on the maintenance crew so daily I was in a cell block usually alone or with one other fellow employee with my toolbox full of tools and about 150 inmates, first thing my boss said to me when I hired on" your life wont open those block doors son sure you wanna work here?" He was an old prison guard from the old days and was on the thump and drag squad before aclu and all that stuff, when he walked into a block he was greeted with yes sir and no sir from the old timers who knew him, I was in the max yard once and an inmate asked me to tell him hi and wanted a job when he got to trustee, I asked him how he knew Ray and he smiled, no front teeth , he said Ray smashed all my teeth out on the cell door one day when I was being an ash*&le.