Practice stitching

[67flh]

Took some scraps, punched holes and tried my hand at stitching. I am going to have to do a better job of keeping the stitches running straight. But overall I aqm pleased, I look forward to working on my first real project. It takes a lot of thread, 1' in that 3 inches.

[Retswerb]

Off to a good start. Chisel punches are nice to give the thread a nice consistent angle. Learn the steps of each stitch and repeat them exactly so that each stitch lays the same.

[zuludog]

It looks like you're drilling the holes. Try using a stitching chisel, they are easier to set straight lines. There are plenty of videos about them on YouTube

Nigel Armitage has several videos on making pouches; even if you don't want to make one, they are good examples of neat & precise leatherwork using stitching chisels

But if you want to stay with a drill, make smaller holes. It looks as though the holes you have made are in a straight line, but they are so big that the thread is able to move up and down within them, resulting in the uneven line

Yes, stitching leather does use a lot of thread . I make sheaths from 3mm veg tan leather, and reckon on using 4 or 5 times the length of the line of sewing. Running out of thread just before the end is very annoying! And remember you will need some for backstitching, so I suggest you are generous with your thread at first, say six times. Once you have some experience you will be able to estimate it more accurately and reduce that

[toxo]

19 hours ago, 67flh said:

Took some scraps, punched holes and tried my hand at stitching. I am going to have to do a better job of keeping the stitches running straight. But overall I aqm pleased, I look forward to working on my first real project. It takes a lot of thread, 1' in that 3 inches.

You're going about it the right way. Get stuck in and practice. There are those that won't make a stitch until they've collected all the right tools/brands etc. Well done.

[67flh]

The holes are not drilled they are punched, I have diamond punches but the holes did not amount to much, could not get my needle and thread thru them. My preference is the straight  stitch vs. the angle. 

[wizard of tragacanth]

You do not have diamond punches... they make diamond shaped holes. You have round punches.

The holes are definitely big enough. Looks like you could drive a truck through them

Not sure why you are having a problem. Maybe the needles are too big. If you are using Tandy big eye needles, that could be the problem.

As my grip strength is waning with age, I have found that wearing Latex rubber gloves helps me to grip the needles much better.

I sometimes have to use jewelers pliers to pull the thread through, especially when back-stitching.

When measuring for thread length, I use a formula of 4 times the length of the line to be stitched, plus about 18-24 inches for working room.

nick

[toxo]

2 hours ago, 67flh said:

The holes are not drilled they are punched, I have diamond punches but the holes did not amount to much, could not get my needle and thread thru them. My preference is the straight  stitch vs. the angle. 

OK, Firstly, when you punch a hole you're taking material away whereas if you use a pronged chisel (You can get straight ones versus the diamond shape) you take nothing away which is why it doesn't look much like a hole. the trick is to get the needle through before the hole closes up and most people use an awl to re-open the hole before passing the needle through. As wizard said it may be the size of your needle that's making it hard. Aim to get some John James No 2 and 4 or 002 and 004 (it's the same thing according to JJ) Harness needles. If you have to make do until then just take the point off any needles you use to avoid shed loads of grief going through previous thread.

[67flh]

6 hours ago, wizard of tragacanth said:

You do not have diamond punches... they make diamond shaped holes. You have round punches.

The holes are definitely big enough. Looks like you could drive a truck through them

Please excuse my lack clarity, I do have 4 MM Diamond Chisels, they did not seem to make enough hole for my thread. Before purchasing everything I tried but did a poor job of researching what I needed. My thread diameter is just a bit smaller than my hole but the packages do not list size for thread or needle. Trust me when I say I get what you are saying and I appreciate your input!

 

5 hours ago, toxo said:

OK, Firstly, when you punch a hole you're taking material away whereas if you use a pronged chisel (You can get straight ones versus the diamond shape).......... Aim to get some John James No 2 and 4 or 002 and 004 (it's the same thing according to JJ) Harness needles. If you have to make do until then just take the point off any needles you use to avoid shed loads of grief going through previous thread.

Great advice regarding chisels and needles!  Thank you!!

 

[67flh]

John James needles come in packs of 25, #2 or #4 , that is enough to last me a lifetime. Would you prefer one over the other and what size thread matches up with which size needle?

[toxo]

56 minutes ago, 67flh said:

John James needles come in packs of 25, #2 or #4 , that is enough to last me a lifetime. Would you prefer one over the other and what size thread matches up with which size needle?

They're not expensive and they do get worn. they get lost  and they do break. I think I need to point you at dieselpunk.ro. You'll be glad I did. You can buy some really cool patterns for cheap that use pdf downloads that you print out, tape em onto your leather, punch your holes and cut your leather and with almost no sense at all you can acheive something worthwile. My first leather project of any kind was the Motoko3. I used a 1.5mm punch with 1.2mm flat waxed polyester thread with a couple of JJ #2s. You could use #4s with 1mm or 1.2mm thread. If things get tight do one needle at a time.

Go here; https://www.leather-patterns.com/

You find his build along vids on youtube under nitekore. His name is Tony See and be sure to join the facebook group where you'll see how well liked he is. Good luck and enjoy.

My Motoko3 With very few tools I might add.

Edited December 29, 2019 by toxo

[wizard of tragacanth]

Okay, so you do have a diamond chisel but the pic that you showed, clearly had round holes, so what are we to think? 

Here is a comparison of Tandy Big Eye needles that I started this hobby with, and the Tandy, size 0, Harness needles that I use now.

nick

Edited December 29, 2019 by wizard of tragacanth
took me 3 times to get it right... you know, the usual...

[Riem]

15 hours ago, wizard of tragacanth said:

Okay, so you do have a diamond chisel but the pic that you showed, clearly had round holes, so what are we to think? 

Here is a comparison of Tandy Big Eye needles that I started this hobby with, and the Tandy, size 0, Harness needles that I use now.

nick

Ooooh, love that wooden needle keep, Nick!

[Tugadude]

On December 27, 2019 at 11:48 AM, 67flh said:

Took some scraps, punched holes and tried my hand at stitching. I am going to have to do a better job of keeping the stitches running straight. But overall I aqm pleased, I look forward to working on my first real project. It takes a lot of thread, 1' in that 3 inches.

Stitching is a process.  In addition to the right materials, the technique of stitching is crucial to getting a good stitch.  It looks clear to me that you are losing needle priority and that is causing the wavy line of stitching.  Your stitches are slanted, albeit mildly, but the problem is consistency.  Some are slanted, some are flat.  Strive for uniformity.  The way to accomplish that is to follow the same procedure for each stitch.  If you haven't, I urge you to look at Nigel Armitage's videos on youtube.  He covers needles, thread, chisels, etc.  The round hole tool you have is probably designed for lacing, not stitching.  I suggest the diamond chisels.  The one you have is fine.  Get some smaller thread and JJ needles.  Good luck!

[wizard of tragacanth]

5 hours ago, Riem said:

Ooooh, love that wooden needle keep, Nick!

Thanks. I was very happy to find that.

It is much nicer that the plastic envelope from Tandy... right?

Got it from Rocky Mountain Leather Supply.

https://www.rmleathersupply.com/search?type=product&q=needle+case

Well, now that I think about it... I originally saw it on RMLS but bought it through Amazon.

They were available in at least two different colors, light and dark, so if you want to keep two different types of needles, that helps.

Oh, yeah, here it is. https://www.amazon.com/Chiloskit-Embroidery-Toothpick-Storage-Organizer/dp/B07F37885F/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=needle+case&qid=1577662792&sr=8-5

nick

Edited December 29, 2019 by wizard of tragacanth
3rd times a charm

[67flh]

15 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Stitching is a process.  In addition to the right materials, the technique of stitching is crucial to getting a good stitch.  It looks clear to me that you are losing needle priority and that is causing the wavy line of stitching.  Your stitches are slanted, albeit mildly, but the problem is consistency.  Some are slanted, some are flat.  Strive for uniformity.  The way to accomplish that is to follow the same procedure for each stitch.  If you haven't, I urge you to look at Nigel Armitage's videos on youtube.  He covers needles, thread, chisels, etc.  The round hole tool you have is probably designed for lacing, not stitching.  I suggest the diamond chisels.  The one you have is fine.  Get some smaller thread and JJ needles.  Good luck!

Thank you for your well thought out critique. Lots of repetition and consistency needed to iron things out. It is a start. Thanks again.

[Tugadude]

2 hours ago, 67flh said:

Thank you for your well thought out critique. Lots of repetition and consistency needed to iron things out. It is a start. Thanks again.

Glad you appreciate my comments.  They were meant to encourage, not so much critique.  My point about it being a process is to remind that there are a lot of ingredients that result in the finished product.

This was from a briefcase I made for my son to take to college 3 years ago.  I just saw it yesterday as he is home visiting.  It still looks the same.  A little patina here and there, but in remarkable shape for the abuse I know it has received.  This was the result of Tandy's Craftool irons, the black diamond chisels that they sell.  I used the 2mm on this one.  Then I used a thread they sell as waxed sewing thread for awls, the awls that have the thread inside.  I don't own one of those awls, but this thread is pretty good, plenty strong and I like the color.  It isn't white, but sort of a "straw" color I would say.  As far as size, it is probably around 0.8mm.  I used the John James #4 needles I think.  It was 3 years ago!

BTW, I didn't burnish any of the edges on his bag and am glad because they have held up great.  They look just the same as when I made it.  If I had burnished and/or used some sort of edge coat, I think they'd look worse for wear.

[toxo]

23 hours ago, Riem said:

Ooooh, love that wooden needle keep, Nick!

I have the same one. They do a lighter coloured one also. I got fed up looking for needles once I put them down so I made one of these. It's a bit industrial but does the job and no one can see the missed stitch can they!

Edited December 30, 2019 by toxo

[toxo]

18 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Stitching is a process.  In addition to the right materials, the technique of stitching is crucial to getting a good stitch.  It looks clear to me that you are losing needle priority and that is causing the wavy line of stitching.  Your stitches are slanted, albeit mildly, but the problem is consistency.  Some are slanted, some are flat.  Strive for uniformity.  The way to accomplish that is to follow the same procedure for each stitch.  If you haven't, I urge you to look at Nigel Armitage's videos on youtube.  He covers needles, thread, chisels, etc.  The round hole tool you have is probably designed for lacing, not stitching.  I suggest the diamond chisels.  The one you have is fine.  Get some smaller thread and JJ needles.  Good luck!

I have to pick up slightly on the slanted Vs straight thing. I think it comes down to purist versus practical. I haven't got the slanted regime down yet and I will use it where it's needed but the punched hole is much quicker because it does away with the need for an awl. The OP alluded to the fact that he prefers a straight stitch But a slanted stitch is easily accomplished by altering the hole/thread ratio. If you have a large hole and a thin thread then you'll get a straight stitch but if you have a smaller hole and a larger thread then the thread has to lie side by side which creates a slanted stitch provided that you adhere to the needle priority you mention.

If you look at the Dieselpunk patterns that I pointed the OP at earlier, every single pattern/design uses a round hole punch.

[chuck123wapati]

I think the chisels produce a parallelogram type cut that creates or emphasizes the zigzag pattern of the stitching, these in conjunction with producing the same stitch every time that makes the stitch look clean and even, when I use round holes it becomes much more important that all stitching is done exactly the same as well, the force used in setting the stitches must be closer or the pattern looks messy. I know I have fought this as well and when I really started making better  looking stitches is when I got got the right needles so I could use the right chisels without breaking the needles or having to pull them through with pliers lol. I will add when you pull a punched hole to tighten the stitch it stretches out of shape so the stitching can be shorter or longer depending on the amount of force used in each stitch. When you pull a chisel cut with the thread it closes making it appear cleaner as you can see in Tugaduds post compared to yours in yours you see the shadow and shape of the hole which detracts from the appearance of the work IMO.

[Riem]

1 hour ago, toxo said:

I have the same one. They do a lighter coloured one also. I got fed up looking for needles once I put them down so I made one of these. It's a bit industrial but does the job and no one can see the missed stitch can they! 

Wow @toxo, that pincushion looks so cool! Industrial? It doesn't look like that, not to me, not at all. I like it - will most likely make one for myself... And for my happily married wife, who looked over my shoulder as I opened this post, and was "favourably impressed" to the point of asking when hers will be ready. Maybe I'll even add the missed stitch, in honour of the fine example! :-)

@67flh, apologies for hijacking your thread! To mitigate that, all I can add is that the learning curve to become proficient in stitching might seem steep, but if you heed the excellent advice given here already you'll be close to mastering the skill set needed to produce a consistent and eye pleasing stitch line. I hand sew everything I make, since I'm a hobbyist and don't want to scale up to a machine. For me, the investment will be too big, and I might end up havingto  start a business, which I don't want to do at this point...

 

[toxo]

7 minutes ago, Riem said:

Wow @toxo, that pincushion looks so cool! Industrial? It doesn't look like that, not to me, not at all. I like it - will most likely make one for myself... And for my happily married wife, who looked over my shoulder as I opened this post, and was "favourably impressed" to the point of asking when hers will be ready. Maybe I'll even add the missed stitch, in honour of the fine example! :-)

@67flh, apologies for hijacking your thread! To mitigate that, all I can add is that the learning curve to become proficient in stitching might seem steep, but if you heed the excellent advice given here already you'll be close to mastering the skill set needed to produce a consistent and eye pleasing stitch line. I hand sew everything I make, since I'm a hobbyist and don't want to scale up to a machine. For me, the investment will be too big, and I might end up havingto  start a business, which I don't want to do at this point...

 

https://www.leather-patterns.com/product/pin-cushion-pattern-leather-diy-pdf-download-instructional-file/129?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=5

[Hardrada]

Get a diamond awl. Yes, thicker or layered leather can be too much for the chisels to handle, and either the chisel doesn't go completely through or the holes come off the line on the other side. Use the chisels to mark or make the beginnings of a hole, then use a sharp diamond awl to finish piercing the leather. Yea, it can be tedious when you have plenty to stitch, but it's about the only way to get consistent, uncrooked, good-looking stiches.

A 24- or 32-ounce Barry King mallet should be your next best friend too. If you're using the puny yellow poly mallets you'll have a hard time, as they bounce like heck and their paltry weight requires you to hit harder and more times—all of these factors net you crooked stitches. A heavy mallet has negligible bounce, and because it hits harder you need less hits and less effort to punch through thick leather with your chisels; you make less noise too.

[Tugadude]

20 hours ago, toxo said:

I have to pick up slightly on the slanted Vs straight thing. I think it comes down to purist versus practical. I haven't got the slanted regime down yet and I will use it where it's needed but the punched hole is much quicker because it does away with the need for an awl. The OP alluded to the fact that he prefers a straight stitch But a slanted stitch is easily accomplished by altering the hole/thread ratio. If you have a large hole and a thin thread then you'll get a straight stitch but if you have a smaller hole and a larger thread then the thread has to lie side by side which creates a slanted stitch provided that you adhere to the needle priority you mention.

If you look at the Dieselpunk patterns that I pointed the OP at earlier, every single pattern/design uses a round hole punch.

Toxo, you are correct that you can still get a slant with a round hole.  Nigel Armitage demonstrates this in one of his videos.  The most important thing is to have a presentable stitch.  Whether that is flat or slanted is then secondary.  Funny you mention purist.  On another forum unrelated to leatherwork, I've had discussions of my tendency towards tradition.  For example, I still believe there is value in learning how to write in cursive.  Many schools aren't teaching it anymore.  Whether you use it or not, I still would teach it.  Do you need it?  Obviously not.  So how is that related to stitching?  Only in that if you accept that slanted is traditional (and perhaps there is argument there) then some will want to strive to achieve it.  Are they right?  Not any more than those who espouse we  write out things in cursive.  To each his or her own as they say.

[toxo]

15 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Toxo, you are correct that you can still get a slant with a round hole.  Nigel Armitage demonstrates this in one of his videos.  The most important thing is to have a presentable stitch.  Whether that is flat or slanted is then secondary.  Funny you mention purist.  On another forum unrelated to leatherwork, I've had discussions of my tendency towards tradition.  For example, I still believe there is value in learning how to write in cursive.  Many schools aren't teaching it anymore.  Whether you use it or not, I still would teach it.  Do you need it?  Obviously not.  So how is that related to stitching?  Only in that if you accept that slanted is traditional (and perhaps there is argument there) then some will want to strive to achieve it.  Are they right?  Not any more than those who espouse we  write out things in cursive.  To each his or her own as they say.

Tug, I agree with everything you say but that's because I'm cursed with being able to see all sides to a story. I'd agree with anyone else with different views if they had a legitimate reason. Tradition can be all things to all men but progress dictates when tradition changes.  I listened to Armitage extolling the virtues of the stitching chisel over the pricking iron and awl. There are many ways to fasten two pieces of leather and they've morphed over the years into what we use now. I'm a practical man I believe a car is for getting from A to B not looking pretty and it's the same with leather. If someone  has a mind to use a stitch or a lace or a rivet  etc who are we to judge? certainly not me. As for cursive writing, I like it and don't think there are many that don't and I don't see a reason not to teach it but it's a bit like morse code, if you don't use it you lose it.

[Tugadude]

3 minutes ago, toxo said:

Tug, I agree with everything you say but that's because I'm cursed with being able to see all sides to a story. I'd agree with anyone else with different views if they had a legitimate reason. Tradition can be all things to all men but progress dictates when tradition changes.  I listened to Armitage extolling the virtues of the stitching chisel over the pricking iron and awl. There are many ways to fasten two pieces of leather and they've morphed over the years into what we use now. I'm a practical man I believe a car is for getting from A to B not looking pretty and it's the same with leather. If someone  has a mind to use a stitch or a lace or a rivet  etc who are we to judge? certainly not me. As for cursive writing, I like it and don't think there are many that don't and I don't see a reason not to teach it but it's a bit like morse code, if you don't use it you lose it.

There's a lot of truth in what you said there.  Even Mr. Armitage's stance on chisels has softened.  I think he learned that they have value.  The new styles of stitching chisels make decent stitching attainable to beginners.  So that is progress!