Adler 30-1 treadle long arm patcher purchase questions

[chiefjason]

Been doing some digging and talked to a buddy of mine.  While I won't be stealing this machine it's a good deal and might get better if he budges on the price.  

From my digging it looks like it uses 207 thread on the top end of the spectrum.  Does that sound about right?  I'll be stitching holsters and similar leather pieces, so I will be using the largest thread I can.  I like the look of it and currently hand stitch with 346.  

Just a quick tinker with the machine the hand crank works, needle and walking foot move.  It looks to have some needles and bobbins with it in the drawer but I didn't look that close.  Has the original manual with it too.  

My buddy suggested asking to try and stitch with it a bit if possible, which I'll take some leather and ask to do that if I can.  

What do I need to look for?  I know Adler parts are not cheap.  So any help on making sure the parts are there is a plus.  Also a plus, I may be able to get the owner to stop by and talk to him.  Looks like he did some shoe repair and that's what it was used for.  That might be invaluable if I can get him to the store.  

Thanks for any and all help.  Unsolicited advice is also appreciated.  If it helps it's a semi gloss black with brass trim plates and matching treadle base.  

Edited December 29, 2019 by chiefjason

[Constabulary]

The 30-1 is a patcher machine with top feed only (no needle feed) and it leaves marks of top side of the leather because the machine is feeding material with a sharp toothed presser foot. These patcher machines are not really production machines they are basically meant for repairing things like shoes, bag, pouches, sewing on patches on blankets and other things and so forth but they are not really meant for sewing gun holsters. Patchers usually just have a max. stitch length of 5mm (and often patcher do not reach this due to worn parts) and stitches become shorter the thicker the material gets.

Actually some machines can handle 207 thread but usually they max out at 138 furthermore the 30-1 has an extremely tiny bobbin and it holds just a few meters of thread.

Do a quick google search and you find a lot of topics on LW.net regarding  the Adler 30-1 machines

https://www.google.com/search?q=Adler+30-1+site%3Aleatherworker.net%2Fforum&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

If you still want a patcher machine better look for a 30-7 (higher foot lift and larger bobbin)  or similar patcher with large bobbins.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Constabulary

[Wizcrafts]

The Adler 30-1 is similar to the Singer 29k73 in that it has a long arm and very small bobbin. It uses Singer 29k small shuttles, bobbins and needles (29x3, 29x4, 135x16, 135x17). The maximum thickness is about 5/16 inch, but the stitches will be very short at that thickness. It does best sewing into 6 to 8 ounces of leather, with #69 bonded nylon thread, or perhaps #92, using a #18 or #19 needle. At this thickness it might get 5 stitches per inch, unless the feed motion bell crank is worn down too far.

If you use #138 thread (with a #23 needle), you'll only be able to about two average length belts. There is no using #207 thread in this model, unless it is a very short project, no more than about 1/4 inch thick. However, that heavy weight thread will probably get caught in the shuttle. Because the stitches get closer at this height (pendulum effect), you'll have to push or pull the work to get even 6 stitches to the inch.

The foot has sharp teeth needed to pull the leather on top and they leave deep marks.

The Adler 30 series are patching machine. I use my 30-7 to sew embroidered patches over pockets in vests and sleeves on jackets, to repair purses, to sew small cylindrical objects, or to sew up the arm on long narrow bags. It is great for installing zippers in the sides of boots, or repairing shoe uppers with torn thread. It is NOT for holsters!

[chiefjason]

I appreciate the advice, since it's kind of hard to come by online.  And you two guys seem to come up the most on what I searched here.  

The bobbin issue isn't a big deal to me.  I offer a couple thread color options so I figured there would be a lot of changing or loading just what I needed for one holster. 

I saw the teeth on that foot and it did concern me.  They are rather deep. That would not be a good look if they could not be fixed.  

And the thread size and stitch length may be what seals the deal as a no.  I think of thread as both functional and decorative.  So switching to a really thin thread just to use the machine bothers me.  And obviously, the concern about what I want to use it for bothers me as well.  But I'm close enough to swing buy and take a second look at it.  I need to drop something by there anyway.  But the odds are certainly leaning towards it not coming home with me at this point.  But being the stubborn type I am I might tinker with it a bit to try and get a look at what you guys are saying.  

The one thing that I really liked about it is the movable foot.  I build my holsters if a very specific way, pre molded.  And the main issue I have had with the BOSS I tried out was making turns around the molded parts and the throat was too short.  This machine looked to solve those but just my luck, it presents issues just as bad or worse.  A machine isn't a must have for me, I currently hand stitch.  But that won't last forever and this one was a good deal.  But only a good deal if it does what I want, right.  

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, chiefjason said:

I saw the teeth on that foot and it did concern me.  They are rather deep. That would not be a good look if they could not be fixed.  

There are feet available for the Singer 29 series machines that will fit the Adler 30 foot bar and some have less aggressive teeth on the bottom. Finding actual Adler feet are like finding hen's teeth and would be through the roof expensive. You could fill them in with rubber compound, or blunt them a bit, but that reduces the ability to feed (pull) the leather. The teeth on the foot do all the heavy lifting on patchers.

Keep an eye open for an Adler 30-7 or 30-70. They have larger bobbins and can sew at least 3/8 inch and can handle #207 thread. However, they need a fair amount of teeth on the foot to pull the work through. There's no getting around that fact.

[ljk]

You guys just about covered it all again and again good for you and your patience. I've only

had one low mileage model a singer 72.  this one was in the shop.  My road machine was

a 30-1 set up with a xl belt reduction drive running a 1.5 amp motor.  This setup came out of a sturdy

box and was set on the lid and was ready to go. Here are my modifications mig the bell crank,

made a special needle plate out of a thin pc, of metal and glued a 2mm pc teflon on it.  I also

took a foot and welded a nut on the end and ground the screw to a point so I could grab the

material. the point matched the needle penetration therefore it didn't mark the leather.

I have heavily polished the hook and shuttle to gain a little more clearance.  These are a

nice addition to the fleet but it is certainly not going to be your primary machine.

[RockyAussie]

On 12/30/2019 at 1:41 PM, ljk said:

I also

took a foot and welded a nut on the end and ground the screw to a point so I could grab the

material. the point matched the needle penetration therefore it didn't mark the leather.

I knew there was some reason I was following you. Is it possible you could share a pic of this mod? Thanks

Brian

[ljk]

Made short file with foot stitching on 5mm leather

with teflon on needle plate leaving no marking on

leather.   tx Lynn

foot.wlmp

[ljk]

foot - Copy.wlmp

[RockyAussie]

Thanks @ljk .....pure genius. Re the needle plate I am thinking it should be possible to just go with a full teflon or nylon perhaps. The grab screw could use a little lock nut and maybe an Allen head do you think? I love the concept and would really like to see it on video. If you took it a little further it should be possible to make the screw adjustable for stitch length adjustment as well. Move and lock. I think as is would be very useful to have all the same.

[dikman]

It's taken me a while to figure out what ljk was talking about but now I see.Very clever.

[ljk]

I tried to download a video but it was giving me chest pains so I did a picture.

I will cover a few issues.  I believe most patchers load (pierce) at the same point regardless

of stitch length.  Therefore once you adjust the piercing point to match the needle

your good to go.  If you will notice the pierce is is along side the needle hole. that

can be adjusted by moving the foot side to side slightly or rotating the screw slightly.

I usually use a set screw vs the shown screw. The screw shown can interfere with

the needle bar in some rotational places.  The teflon on the throat plate is simply

rough sanded cleaned with acetate and glued on. I use Seal All contact cement good stuff.

 

This goes back 25 years ago when we had a fad going at mc shows with unlined

mc vests and I was having feeding problems doing pockets, that 29-4 still has that

teflon on the plate. Early Machines 29-4 and 30-1 feet may need to raised a little by grinding the

foot.. Later model Adler or Singer will work well with this mod, as will the chinese varieties.

The ultimate would be a Claes Model 30 (1/4 stitch length 1/2 lift) The handcrank

chinese shoe patches is the easiest to modify because of high lift and long stitch

capabilities.  The ultimate conversion would be a tiny tool steel tube around the needle

allowing good vision with a open foot.