Historical western belts

[MikeRock]

In the book the rivet heads are distinct.  I had to put on a second pair of reading glasses to see them clearly, but they are there.  I am still puzzling over the inside.  It looks like the splash from the tube is there, but very finely divided.  I question how much holding power that minor bit of expansion has.  I can't resolve a washer on the inside no matter how hard I try.  Like putting a rack on a fat doe..... just wishful thinking.  Yet, it is obvious, the loops are still there 140 years later...  I'd love to talk to the collection owner and get first hand impressions of this belt. 

God bless

[dikman]

Well, I have the book and those rivet heads are doing a good job of hiding from me.

[fredk]

4 hours ago, dikman said:

Well, I have the book and those rivet heads are doing a good job of hiding from me.

from me too. But it may be the print of the book. Not all printings are the same. Mike's book may have a clearer print than ours

[Bert51]

I used a magnifying glass when real close a pictures, I blew this picture up until it distorted and I could not see anything clearly.

Bert.

[chuck123wapati]

23 hours ago, fredk said:

not so, if you look at the rivet, it is hollow and the edge has cracked as it was crimped over - this can be seen more clearly in the photo in the book.

Also, hardware like this was being turned out by machines since the 1780s. No smith would bother with making anything so small as a rivet - its too fiddly, too time consuming

Actually blacksmith apprentices made washers, rivets, and nails among other mundane parts, as part of their apprenticeship learning process and as busy work back in the day. 

6 hours ago, dikman said:

Well, I have the book and those rivet heads are doing a good job of hiding from me.

me too! and am wondering how one rivet in the center would hold down all the outer edges of the loop strap, seems it would pull away or cup at the top at least after awhile it has to be stitched also I would think.

[MikeRock]

The rivet heads are quite clear, nice circles.  Measuring and scaling from the .44-40 cartridge case under the rim, I get a diameter for the rivet head of 0.323", 8mm.  The diameter of the splash is equal within reasonable limits.  No washers, and this thing has held together for this long....  When you look at it, there isn't that great a force trying to tear the rivet out, just holding a friction fit on a cartridge case. 

God bless

Hope you can see the two rivets, or at least the one on the left.

[chuck123wapati]

18 minutes ago, MikeRock said:

The rivet heads are quite clear, nice circles.  Measuring and scaling from the .44-40 cartridge case under the rim, I get a diameter for the rivet head of 0.323", 8mm.  The diameter of the splash is equal within reasonable limits.  No washers, and this thing has held together for this long....  When you look at it, there isn't that great a force trying to tear the rivet out, just holding a friction fit on a cartridge case. 

God bless

Hope you can see the two rivets, or at least the one on the left.

I can see that now, they must have been  painted or finished to match the leather, is that a worn thread from a stitch above the rivet on the left still cant figure how the bottom and top wouldn't pull away at least  a little bit without being sewn did they glue also back then? yes not a lot of pressure so they would easily hold on their own.

[MikeRock]

That's a big piece of lint on the original display.  It's in the book photo.  I had to look.   It looks like the rivet body is not much more than 1/8", so the 5/16" diameter head leaves 3/32" of rim all the way around the head and splash/expanded part, plus the expanded part is actually curved back around and dug into the leather.  That would hold the leather in compression quite well.   If you load and unload from a loop you'll see there is very little pressure placed on the rivet.  I think I'll turn some copper rivets down to size and play with this a bit.  How's the weather up your way Chuck?  I just had a friend from Troy, MT tell me how nice it is up there.

God bless

[MikeRock]

The disappearing rivet trick   I have some cowboy cuffs, leather cones that went over the wrist to protect the shirt cuff and help prevent injuries as well.  The rivets on those are steel and darned near invisible.  I just thought of  them.  I'll measure and fiddle and see if we can put the rivet issue to rest.  Fun stuff.

[dikman]

Thanks Mike, now I can see them - just! I find the whole thing a bit weird. They're obviously not completely hollow rivets. I doubt if I could replicate that if I tried (not that I want to).