This Art Form Is Going Straight To Hell

[Sheilajeanne]

Wow, way to turn off potential customers!!  

 

Tandy provides free lessons with every beginner's kit. It could be the rule is only the person buying the kit can take advantage of the lessons. But, still, you think they could make exceptions for a  husband and wife team!

It was that deal that got me permanently hooked on leatherwork, and I've put thousands of dollars into Tandy's coffers in the years since! 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Sheilajeanne

[YinTx]

43 minutes ago, Samalan said:

Finally talked my wife into going to Tandy, we signed up for a leather carving class, on the way home Tandy called asked if we were husband and wife when I said yes he said I'm sorry we don't allow that. wow hell of a business model !

Wait wat??!?!?  So, if you're married, they won't sell to you?  Something not passing the sniff test here.

YinTx

[Sheilajeanne]

Yin Tix, there was a father and daughter in my leatherworking class, so they don't object to family members being in the same class. I'm suspecting the deal was only the wife bought a kit, and they're being cheap and saying BOTH husband and wife must buy kits before they can get in on the `free lessons`deal.

Just guessing, but I think that may be the reason behind it. 

 

[YinTx]

6 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

Yin Tix, there was a father and daughter in my leatherworking class, so they don't object to family members being in the same class. I'm suspecting the deal was only the wife bought a kit, and they're being cheap and saying BOTH husband and wife must buy kits before they can get in on the `free lessons`deal.

Just guessing, but I think that may be the reason behind it. 

 

Still not passing the sniff test.  It was ok when they bought the kit, and were perhaps just "dating" but now since it comes to light they are married, it is somehow different?  Same number of people, only difference is marital status.  Not right at all.

YinTx

[Sheilajeanne]

I admit, it does sound pretty strange, and I hope other Tandy's aren't operating this way, too. They're shooting themselves in the foot if they are!

[LatigoAmigo]

19 minutes ago, Sheilajeanne said:

I hope other Tandy's aren't operating this way, too.

In my experience, it looks like Tandy Leather stores could be franchises. That might make it hard for them to have the consistency of company owned operations.

[Alaisiagae]

21 hours ago, Samalan said:

Finally talked my wife into going to Tandy, we signed up for a leather carving class, on the way home Tandy called asked if we were husband and wife when I said yes he said I'm sorry we don't allow that. wow hell of a business model !

That is so b.s.! I'd recommend calling the corporate customer service to complain. I've been in classes with father-daughter, husband-wife, etc. The beginning carving class is nice, I enjoyed it a lot and learned a lot, too - I was the only one in the class that day, so it was like a private lesson. 

 

@Ailinea Great post, very insightful! I think another turn-off could be the price of tools, and how many tools you need to make something. The Cricut might be $200, but I've dropped over $1000 on leather stamps, punches, tools, the leather itself... the Cricut is versatile, leatherworking tools are so specialized: there's not just one set of hole punches, there are dozens, not just one awl but a half dozen, not just one stamp but hundreds. I think you had a good idea there about going to a fabric store to experiment with designs using cheaper materials than leather. Maybe they could start selling pleather ("vegan leather") for practicing. I agree that modern patterns (cosplay, armor, fashion pieces, etc.) would be cool - I am so not interested in sheathes, holsters, and saddles. 

 

I got an email fron Tandy yesterday or today, they are now starting to carry Barry King tools online-only. 

[YinTx]

9 hours ago, Alaisiagae said:

I got an email fron Tandy yesterday or today, they are now starting to carry Barry King tools online-only. 

Well, that is interesting, and now we know the replacement for the eliminated Pro line of tooling tools.  But, I think I'd just as soon order directly from Barry King and save 10%.  Plus, better selection.  I'm curious how it'll work out in the long run.

YinTx

[YinTx]

On 10/29/2020 at 12:28 AM, Ailinea said:

Y'all, if women are willing to drop hundreds to thousands of dollars on a Louis Vuitton, and dream about dropping tens of thousands of dollars or more on an Hermes Birkin, then there IS a market that's not being courted. 

And since the topic of "Why is scrapbooking so popular in comparison to leatherworking" was brought up, I think it's because the companies who run those industries do everything they can to make it look SO EASY and anyone can get good results.

I agree with everything mentioned, but kinda get hung up on the concept of making a "SO EASY" Hermes Birkin.  To get the skillset necessary to craft an Hermes quality bag takes years, and is far from easy.   I think it is a bit hard to cater to both crowds.

All that said, I have seen some making Hermes style bags and making it look easy.  They have the tools, patterns and the skills - yet still the final result isn't quite Hermes.  And I think if any beginner attacked the project, they would be so frustrated with the end result and the cost of the materials and tools that they might never do any other leather project again.  

Not sure I have a solution, but I like the direction.

YinTx

[Spyros]

13 hours ago, Alaisiagae said:

I think another turn-off could be the price of tools, and how many tools you need to make something. The Cricut might be $200, but I've dropped over $1000 on leather stamps, punches, tools, the leather itself... the Cricut is versatile, leatherworking tools are so specialized: there's not just one set of hole punches, there are dozens, not just one awl but a half dozen, not just one stamp but hundreds. I think you had a good idea there about going to a fabric store to experiment with designs using cheaper materials than leather. Maybe they could start selling pleather ("vegan leather") for practicing. I agree that modern patterns (cosplay, armor, fashion pieces, etc.) would be cool - I am so not interested in sheathes, holsters, and saddles.  

Try woodworking or metalworking... $1k doesn't even get you decent dust extraction, never mind that you have to sacrifice the best part of 2 car garage to get anywhere near a usable workspace.  

I always thought leather working is incredibly cheap!  it still blows my mind that I can make something substantial that people actually desire, using nothing but a desk and a couple of drawers worth of tools

[Retswerb]

1 hour ago, Spyros said:

I always thought leather working is incredibly cheap!  it still blows my mind that I can make something substantial that people actually desire, using nothing but a desk and a couple of drawers worth of tools

Yeah, it’s all in the comparison I suppose. Next to a shop full of power tools, leather is cheap. Next to a desk full of scrapbooking supplies it can look like quite a financial outlay.

My personal leather working budget is pretty tight, I’ve collected slowly over several years (including asking for some Christmas gifts, etc) and I doubt I have $500 in tools and equipment. There’s plenty more I’d like to have but rarely do I feel that my toolset rather than my skillset is what’s holding me back.

[Spyros]

yeah but with your $500 of equipment you can make 5 wallets and earn all your money back really quickly.  Not sure if you can do that with scrapbooking* but you can't with any other craft I can think of... I guess you could buy a drill, a circular saw and a sander and start building timber decks, that's pretty much all you need.  Plus 10 years experience of course, by which time you would have accumulated $10k worth of tools anyway 

 

*to be honest I'm not sure what scrapbooking is, I googled some images and left me confused LOL 

Kids diaries?

[Alaisiagae]

2 hours ago, Spyros said:

yeah but with your $500 of equipment you can make 5 wallets and earn all your money back really quickly.  Not sure if you can do that with scrapbooking* but you can't with any other craft I can think of... I guess you could buy a drill, a circular saw and a sander and start building timber decks, that's pretty much all you need.  Plus 10 years experience of course, by which time you would have accumulated $10k worth of tools anyway 

 

*to be honest I'm not sure what scrapbooking is, I googled some images and left me confused LOL 

Kids diaries?

Scrapbooking is taking photos and possibly other documents and organizing and presenting them in an artistic/artful manner. A plain photo album just has the pages with the photos in them. Maybe you arrange the photos in the order that you took them or by theme. For scrapbooking, you'd arrange them to tell a story, maybe add some text, such as location or a feeling the photo captures for you, stickers or shapes, etc. My mom made me a scrapbook years ago that contains photos of me, with some nice sticker artwork and words of encouragement. 

There are other hobbies that people do that are not advanced like woodworking and metal working: fiber crafts (knitting, crochet, embroidery, cross-stitch, etc.), baking, sculpture (clay), painting/coloring, sketching, model figures, etc. These are easily accessible and low budget. For me, I like to make end-products for myself or to give as gifts - I'm not interested in starting up a business and selling what I make, so I'm not recouping my costs for the leather supplies. Plus, I feel the learning curve for leather is much longer and steeper than other crafts, so it's easier for people such as myself to get discouraged and frustrated by all the practicing and failed projects. Sometimes I just want to do something for the weekend and have something to show for it before I go back to work the next week. Also, as has been mentioned, not everyone has the space for leather crafting. I use a plastic rolling craft cart to hold my supplies, and a collapsible small work table that's, like, 3'x3'. Wish I had my own crafting space, but that's just not possible. I can't leave stuff out for days and days for big/long projects in a shared living space like that.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Alaisiagae

[Spyros]

44 minutes ago, Alaisiagae said:

Scrapbooking is taking photos and possibly other documents and organizing and presenting them in an artistic/artful manner. A plain photo album just has the pages with the photos in them. Maybe you arrange the photos in the order that you took them or by theme. For scrapbooking, you'd arrange them to tell a story, maybe add some text, such as location or a feeling the photo captures for you, stickers or shapes, etc. My mom made me a scrapbook years ago that contains photos of me, with some nice sticker artwork and words of encouragement. 

There are other hobbies that people do that are not advanced like woodworking and metal working: fiber crafts (knitting, crochet, embroidery, cross-stitch, etc.), baking, sculpture (clay), painting/coloring, sketching, model figures, etc. These are easily accessible and low budget. For me, I like to make end-products for myself or to give as gifts - I'm not interested in starting up a business and selling what I make, so I'm not recouping my costs for the leather supplies. Plus, I feel the learning curve for leather is much longer and steeper than other crafts, so it's easier for people such as myself to get discouraged and frustrated by all the practicing and failed projects. Sometimes I just want to do something for the weekend and have something to show for it before I go back to work the next week. Also, as has been mentioned, not everyone has the space for leather crafting. I use a plastic rolling craft cart to hold my supplies, and a collapsible small work table that's, like, 3'x3'. Wish I had my own crafting space, but that's just not possible. I can't leave stuff out for days and days for big/long projects in a shared living space like that.

Yeah I get it, there are other crafts that are cheap but these are more hobbies than anything else.  Leatherworking gives people the ability to make legit sellable products and even a small business for themselves for a very small investment.  And I only mention the word "sellable" not because this is the end all - be all target for all crafts, not at all, but just to highlight the quality and significance of the end result.  

In leatherworking the ratio of the value of the outcome versus the financial outlay is very high.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Spyros

[fredk]

5 hours ago, Alaisiagae said:

Scrapbooking is taking photos and possibly other documents and organizing and presenting them in an artistic/artful manner. A plain photo album just has the pages with the photos in them. Maybe you arrange the photos in the order that you took them or by theme. For scrapbooking, you'd arrange them to tell a story, maybe add some text, such as location or a feeling the photo captures for you, stickers or shapes, etc. My mom made me a scrapbook years ago that contains photos of me, with some nice sticker artwork and words of encouragement. 

 

5 hours ago, Spyros said:

Yeah I get it, there are other crafts that are cheap but these are more hobbies than anything else. 

In my area some women have turned 'scrapbooking'  into a paying hobby. Folk bring them their cuttings, old cards, old letters etc and they put it all together into what we used to call in child fostering a 'memories book'

[CraigL]

Yes, seems there’s little interest in leather “craft”, part of which is the archaic look of the kits I’ve seen available, and few that address personal articles that people under 35yo carry every day. Some extravagant bags that are machine-sewn or single-thread sewn are marketed as “hand-sewn”, “double-needle, coach stitched” to the uninformed buyer. [AS IF the info weren’t available online.]
Finding quality hardware is becoming difficult!

[Tugadude]

On October 30, 2020 at 1:55 PM, Samalan said:

Finally talked my wife into going to Tandy, we signed up for a leather carving class, on the way home Tandy called asked if we were husband and wife when I said yes he said I'm sorry we don't allow that. wow hell of a business model !

What possible explanation was given?

[Tugadude]

If the original post in this thread was a rant about Tandy Leather and a perceived lack of leadership, I think it is only fair to judge them by their current efforts.  Since that post was written Tandy Leather has overhauled their website, their entire pricing structure and introduced a number of new products.  Just recently they unveiled a new heat embosser, for example.  And they sell Barry King tools via their website.  I've written previously that they added the Ritza 25 Tiger Thread and that was a response to requests from the leather community.

They have made many positive strides in recent months.  I don't think there is any question about that.

 

Here's their Facebook page in case you want to check it out.

https://www.facebook.com/tandyleather/

Edited November 2, 2020 by Tugadude

[Sheilajeanne]

Agree with Tugadude! They are also selling Angelus paints, and have greatly increased the range of colours you can get for Fiebing's dyes.

A year or so ago, I'd have to go to Michael's to buy Angelus.

[Reegesc]

3 hours ago, Tugadude said:

If the original post in this thread was a rant about Tandy Leather and a perceived lack of leadership, I think it is only fair to judge them by their current efforts.  Since that post was written Tandy Leather has overhauled their website, their entire pricing structure and introduced a number of new products.  Just recently they unveiled a new heat embosser, for example.  And they sell Barry King tools via their website.  I've written previously that they added the Ritza 25 Tiger Thread and that was a response to requests from the leather community.

They have made many positive strides in recent months.  I don't think there is any question about that.

 

Here's their Facebook page in case you want to check it out.

https://www.facebook.com/tandyleather/

Well, it's a start...but they have a long way to go.  The key thing is to energize new blood.   The  ONLY business I see doing that is Tony See's Etsy platform.  That guy is knocking out of the park.  Please go go check out his Facebook group.   All young people making great stuff and having a blast.   Selling Ritza thread and Angelus is not  going to do it.   There needs to be fundamental change to the approach with this art form if it is going to survive.

[Handstitched]

3 hours ago, cseeger said:

They have made many positive strides in recent months.  I don't think there is any question about that.

Except Australia . Its a pity they they don't have a Tandy here in Australia, not any more, they closed it. But they were competing against other well established leather outlets , mostly in the east in NSW, South Australia, Victoria, & Queensland . 

I'm in the west, theres one outlet .........and thats it .  They supply my hides and some hardware etc, like they have been for may years, but the don't have everything. 

HS

[fredk]

Nor in the UK. or Europe. Closed all the branches, just as they were getting well known and established.

[chrisash]

O for looking back with memory days of happy days where all was right with the world, Get Real Life has changed for good

Tandy may well have been a nice friendly place to learn and maybe buy some tools in the past, but please get real , retail has changed massively in the last 40 odd years, there is no slack anymore, wages have risen meaning that every employer must earn far far more that 3 times their wages in sales profit just to break even, so in retail nothing is free anymore

Stock cost a fortune to buy, hold and transport, all those small packets on the racks selling just one or two items a week do not make money to the company

We all now buy on the internet and all of us complain about transport costs, yet give no thought to the retailer restocking shops on a regular basis and the logistic staff at HQ arranging it all plus the warehouse costs

Tandy is facing huge competition from the internet worldwide and has to compete, its shareholders are only investing or buying shares to make a PROFIT, not to be a nice place to meet and buy a 8$ stamp

Edited November 3, 2020 by chrisash

[Tugadude]

14 hours ago, cseeger said:

Well, it's a start...but they have a long way to go.  The key thing is to energize new blood.   The  ONLY business I see doing that is Tony See's Etsy platform.  That guy is knocking out of the park.  Please go go check out his Facebook group.   All young people making great stuff and having a blast.   Selling Ritza thread and Angelus is not  going to do it.   There needs to be fundamental change to the approach with this art form if it is going to survive.

I get where you're coming from.  I do.  Let's hope that they continue to evolve under this new leadership.  They've made a number of changes that give hope.

[Tugadude]

3 hours ago, chrisash said:

O for looking back with memory days of happy days where all was right with the world, Get Real Life has changed for good

Tandy may well have been a nice friendly place to learn and maybe buy some tools in the past, but please get real , retail has changed massively in the last 40 odd years, there is no slack anymore, wages have risen meaning that every employer must earn far far more that 3 times their wages in sales profit just to break even, so in retail nothing is free anymore

Stock cost a fortune to buy, hold and transport, all those small packets on the racks selling just one or two items a week do not make money to the company

We all now buy on the internet and all of us complain about transport costs, yet give no thought to the retailer restocking shops on a regular basis and the logistic staff at HQ arranging it all plus the warehouse costs

Tandy is facing huge competition from the internet worldwide and has to compete, its shareholders are only investing or buying shares to make a PROFIT, not to be a nice place to meet and buy a 8$ stamp

You hit on a lot of great points.  Times are tough for retailers.  For example, there are folks that will go to a local sporting goods retailer and try on a shoe to make sure of the fit and then they will order that same shoe off of the internet.

I'm sorry, but that is horrible.  So how are brick-and-mortar stores supposed to survive if they can't count on local business?  Is it any wonder their stock isn't as deep as it used to be?

Regarding transportation costs, you really struck a nerve because I'm in an industry dependent upon delivery at a number of different levels.  Trucking is a nightmare, both inbound freight and at the distributor level.  Finding drivers with the proper licenses, who is drug-free and shows up for work is nearly impossible it seems.  The average age of truck drivers in the U.S. is currently around 49.  The shortage of truck drivers is estimated at around 60,000 right now and expected to increase to 160,000 by 2028.