A new machine?

[toxo]

Despite read these pages and many more beside, I'm thinking about another machine and have to ask you guys to help me out. My .17 Hornet has been in the cabinet for far too long and I'm thinking about turning it into a cylinder arm machine. My evolution has taught me that I almost certainly won't need to go heavier than handbag types, maybe a decent belt but I've got the trusty Durkopp for that. What can I get for around £700 - £800? New would be nice or as near to it as I can get. Don't mind clones as long as they're reliable and I don't have to hunt for a manual. Pretty please guys?

[Matt S]

For £7-800... probably nothing new. The most popular for handbags and the like would be either small-cylinder types like the Pfaff 335 or Adler 69 and their derivatives (2" nose, usually used with TKT40 thread or smaller), or larger cylinder types like the Singer 153 and its derivatives (3" nose, TKT20 thread and smaller). There are some newer designs like the Juki 246 and 341, and their clones, which blur the lines between these groups.

For that sort of budget you'd be able to get a second-hand clone from a dealer, or maybe an old "premium" brand machine. Private sales can result in some real bargains but you can also buy a lemon.

[toxo]

Thanks Matt. Just feelers at the moment. Can stretch it for something good,  just have to justify to myself for what is just a hobby at the moment although I'll have to start getting some money back soon.

[Matt S]

2 hours ago, toxo said:

Thanks Matt. Just feelers at the moment. Can stretch it for something good,  just have to justify to myself for what is just a hobby at the moment although I'll have to start getting some money back soon.

If you're happy to be patient, do some homework and take a bit of a risk you can often find good used machines well within your budget as private sales. Helps if you're mechanically minded but there's nothing too complicated inside a common industrial sewing machine. Design lineages like the Pfaff 335 and Singer 153 are very well documented and supported with parts and accessories of varying qualities. The Singer 17 family is another good small-cylinder choice, though a bit old fashioned these days, even with current-production Seiko TEs regarding features and options. I like buying "good, used" premium machines -- they tend to hold their value more than Chinese machines and you can sometimes increase their value by doing a little restoration and upgrading

Otherwise you're looking at about £1200 for a new clone from a dealer in this category. Price for a "good, used" premium machine from a dealer would be similar, depending on a few factors.

[RockyAussie]

Hey @toxo, I am putting together a few comparisons on different cylinder machines and their useful differences at the moment. This will focus mostly on the working cylinder end where all the important to making stuff happens. It will cover things like the thickness of leather they can handle,sizes of bobbins, how far the needle is from the left edge and the size of the cylinder at the end, Thread size capabilities and a few other bits. These things as a maker of a wide variety of products mean more to me than a lot of the information I find available on the dealer web sites generally. I am waiting on a few more dealers pictures to finish this off and hope to have this post up next week sometime. Here below are a couple of the pictures of the type of thing I am talking about -  

[toxo]

My God Brian! I'm beginning to suspect you're a alien with your work output! I get tired just reading about what you get up to.

Never having used a cylinder arm before I'm gonna need educating but with my focus on handbags at the moment I hadn't thought that end was that important. I guess it must be for some else you wouldn't be focussing on it. Using my crystal ball the only other accessory I might want/need  is a binder. I'm watching this space.

Edited March 7, 2020 by toxo

[toxo]

I found this one but I'm thinking the extra costings would make it too expensive plus why won't the seller take PayPal? And it's not set up so can't test it.

A service/overhaul.

A servo motor.

Converting back to "normal" sewing.

Cost of collecting

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pfaff-335-cylinder-arm-sewing-machine-awning-canopy-valance-edge-ready/114109301465

Edited March 7, 2020 by toxo

[mikesc]

I know plenty of people ( especially businesses ) who will not take paypal..including myself..

From a seller's point of view..customer pays via paypal..you send the item..customer receives it, even signs for it, then says that it never arrived, or was damaged, or was not as described..paypal blocks the sellers money..and it stays blocked..paypal always side with the buyer.

paypal say that they can take back the money during 90 days..they have been known to take back the money after a year has gone by because a customer raises a dispute..

If you sell something ( lets say it might be leather hats )  and it goes successful, so you get a rush of orders, paypal can, and often do..block your money because you are making too much too fast, in their opinion..So you can be working, but not receiving any money.

As a seller, I would not touch paypal with someone else's bargepole.

YMMV

[toxo]

5 minutes ago, mikesc said:

I know plenty of people ( especially businesses ) who will not take paypal..including myself..

From a seller's point of view..customer pays via paypal..you send the item..customer receives it, even signs for it, then says that it never arrived, or was damaged, or was not as described..paypal blocks the sellers money..and it stays blocked..paypal always side with the buyer.

paypal say that they can take back the money during 90 days..they have been known to take back the money after a year has gone by because a customer raises a dispute..

If you sell something ( lets say it might be leather hats )  and it goes successful, so you get a rush of orders, paypal can, and often do..block your money because you are making too much too fast, in their opinion..So you can be working, but not receiving any money.

As a seller, I would not touch paypal with someone else's bargepole.

YMMV

I've been on the end of that as well. Sold a perfectly good  expensive Schmidt and Bender scope to a guy in Scotland I had to take it back with a rattle in it and had to pay for the repair but when distance buying what guarantees are there that you're going to get what you paid for in a one time transaction? Different of course with reputable dealers.

[dikman]

Mike, while I have no doubt you know what you're talking about re-paypal, to say that they always favour the buyer isn't quite correct. My experience, with a $500+ item, was not good, it took me three months and I only got a refund when I finally involved the Australian financial authorities (and even then they still insisted that they were in the right to refuse me!). I know of others with similar experiences.

Back on topic, toxo, if you're at all mechanically inclined then do the servicing yourself. Manuals are generally available for most machines, plus you have this forum as a resource, and in general these machines are not that complicated once you get into them. Save yourself some money.

Servomotors - you don't have to buy the most expensive one, many of the "cheaper" ones are quite satisfactory.

If it has a binder then there's not much you can do about the cost of standard feet etc, other than search ebay/aliexpress.

Collecting, just be grateful you're in England, where everyone lives close by (relatively speaking), here in Oz long distances are par for the course.