Frustrated by Consew 199 - Timing Issues

[spotty]

So I'm getting very frustrated by this machine,   It was completely flakey when it came to doing zigzag and I figured the timing was off a bit so I decided to re-time it to see if that helps.  Now I'm in a situation where the hook picks up the top thread reliably with the throat plate off I can watch it picking up the top thread but I put the throat plate on and try to sew and get nothing.   Take the plate off and try again and can see the hook is picking up correctly,

I reverified the needle bar position, hook time intercept (on center ie straight stitch) and the position of the needle relative to the hook.   All seem correct.

Any ideas on whats going on or things to try,   I have a video, but is way too big with the max size of 1.46Mb but am pleased to post a link to a file share for those that think they may be able to help.

[Wizcrafts]

Consew has a user's manual for this machine that includes timing details. Download the Consew 199RB-1A manual here.

If this is not your exact model, all current Consew zig zag models are listed on this page

There is a manual for the 199R here. The photos are sideways and some are facing left and others facing right..

[councilman24]

Put on a bigger needle. The thread hast to hide in the long groove of the needle from all friction from the material being sewn. It make work with no material but once you try to sew the thread no longer moves freely in the long groove.to make loop for the hook to pick up.

[spotty]

Thanks, I’ll try those.   For zigzag - time on center straight stitch or on leftmost needle position?

[nylonRigging]

10 hours ago, spotty said:

Thanks, I’ll try those.   For zigzag - time on center straight stitch or on leftmost needle position?

I have to re-time my straight/zigzag, Consew 146-RB about every 2 years . it is pain and always eats up several hours of time getting it right, because it something that i never stay current at doing .
you have to do trial and error to get it finally 'fine tuned' and run perfect in Strait stitch, and then zigzag,.. and then it has to do it all in reverse stitch also .

mine is, turn the zigzag all way to the largest width ( 10mm ) @ needles 'Right' and lowest point .
then set the Gib 0.5mm Right of the needle 'L' , ( but ), i find that the 0.5mm stated has some + - adjustment because it not a perfect measurement .
then turn needle to ' L ' lowest position, with Hook point 1mm above thread hole .

You are also going to find out that all needle manufacture have different sizes of Scarf Lengths . I find that Organ gives the most liberal Scarf length for your Consew to move and 'Adjust timing' to the Needles R & L side for getting your zigzag to factory 'suggested' width . . Organ give the most distance for you Hook to move up/down the Scarf on L and R timing adjustment .
.

Edited April 5, 2020 by nylonRigging

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Good information here already.  Here's a video I made that may help explain hook timing and needle distance on YouTube Click Here

[nylonRigging]

very nice longarm there to say the least, and the bed to head work clearance looks killer also .

I won't ask what the gross weight of that head is ?? , as I most likely will never have the privilege to pick one up to sit behind. ...LOL

.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

16 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

very nice longarm there to say the least, and the bed to head work clearance looks killer also .

I won't ask what the gross weight of that head is ?? , as I most likely will never have the privilege to pick one up to sit behind. ...LOL

.

Well, if you are ever in Philadelphia and I have one on hand...That guy is about 363 Kilo, or 800LBS.

Here's a spec sheet for the machine see attached.

CordesSpecsGreggNotes.pdf

Edited April 8, 2020 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[spotty]

So I have been playing around and I think I have the hook timing close - ie. the hook rotates around intersects with the needle scarf and picks up the top thread.    I was then running into problems in that it wasn't rocking up the bottom thread - so I ended up playing around and got the gap just right that it picks up the bottom thread now with the cover plate off or on.  So I thought I'd figured it out and then put the presser foot on and hand turned it and the top thread then looks like it isn't forming the stitch.

Threading path in attached image/

 

Video of Throat plate on no presser foot picking up bottom thread  

Video of presser foot on not coming stitch

So looking at the timing its close, the hook needle gap is close but still not getting stitch when presser foot on and material under the foot.

Frustrations galore.  Looking for ideas on what to try next

[nylonRigging]

in the vid. , straight run stitch, You dropping every stitch on the bobbin  ? . is your scarf to hook distance to far ? .
It should be ' @ minimum 'at least picking up,  even if it looks like crap on the backside. So you really off on something if not picking up on the straight stitch .

That machine model really closely resembles mine . I wish you were close to me I would help tune it up .

Edited April 12, 2020 by nylonRigging

[RockyAussie]

Looking at your picture above it appears to me that you have the thread going incorrectly in that the thread should be going from your tension discs straight up to the thread return spring and then back down to the hook then on up. Although this video shows a different machine if you check at about 2.5 minutes in you will see what I mean.

 

[dikman]

Yep, I agree, I looked at that thread path and thought it didn't look right but couldn't see enough detail. It should come up to the check spring and THEN around the bar at the left of the spring. I doubt if the check spring is doing anything the way it's threaded.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Check the timing using the needle bar.  Most 199RB made by Stager in Japan like your Consew have timing marks on the needle bar.  Bottom ring is for BDC or bottom dead center from the bottom of the needle bar rock frame, and then turn the handwheel over in a sewing motion or counter clockwise and the upper ring on the needle bar is inline with the bottom.

[George1520]

First fix the tread path. 

Here is another way from consew to  timing a zig zag machine http://www.consew.com/Files/112347/InstructionManuals/175.pdf Different machine but works well. 

I had some issues timing my 199, skipping stiches and the  upper tread tension was out of control. All was good after chancing the feed dog. I still dont know why that caused the problems.

Edited March 17, 2021 by George1520

[williaty]

Can those of you who chimed in to help here also take a look at my thread on trying to get a Consew 99 to stop skipping stitches?

 

 

[sjharumph]

got a good chuckle out of 'nylonRigging' comment about needing to time his 146RB every two years.     We added one to our fleet to help sew spandex spacer fabric reliably.   That 146RB is a great machine but it is by far the most finicky of the lot.   One second it's fine....next second it isn't.    It does take far more time to get correct than our other manual machines.   It's a beast though.    I've never seen a machine respond so much to such tiny changes.    Wouldn't do without it though.