Flattening a Tandy round knife

[CharlesG]

Hello All,

I'd made an impulse purchase years ago on an Al Stohlman round knife from Tandy.  Having never used one, I managed the learning curve fairly well, but the constant stropping eventually made me put it down for a long rest.

I read somewhere that the blades aren't very good metal, and they're mass produced & poorly made in general.  The take away from the post was that they needed to be "thinned" to help them keep a good edge.

With the Corona-cation upon us, I've dug out this new/old knife and put it on a whet stone flat with a spray bottle nearby to keep everything nice and wet.  I spent an entire day on one side and I've got at least that much more to do to flatten the first side.  I've been keeping track of progress with a sharpie.  The pits and variation of thickness are vast.

I have a fairly large floor mount belt sander.  

Question:  Do I just need a speed reducer to keep the blade from getting too hot?  Get this thing flat on both sides and then sharpen, strop and put to use?

Suggestions, advice, questions and constructive criticism is welcomed.

Thank you for reading.

 

 

As per Newbie regulations, I reside in Knoxville, TN.  I travel for work, so my location Varies.

[RockyAussie]

I only ever use a belt sander a rag wheel mop with tripoli polish myself. Check this post out I did awhile back that shows one of the knives in action.

If doing a new knife from scratch I would do a sharp belt clean up to start with to keep the heat down then redo with a bluntened off  belt to smooth up following.

[bikermutt07]

I've owned two and gifted both of them away. The way I heard it, there isn't enough carbon in that steel to ever maintain an edge. 

Pardon my redneck, but I figure, you are probably pissin uphill. 

[chuck123wapati]

12 hours ago, CharlesG said:

Hello All,

I'd made an impulse purchase years ago on an Al Stohlman round knife from Tandy.  Having never used one, I managed the learning curve fairly well, but the constant stropping eventually made me put it down for a long rest.

I read somewhere that the blades aren't very good metal, and they're mass produced & poorly made in general.  The take away from the post was that they needed to be "thinned" to help them keep a good edge.

With the Corona-cation upon us, I've dug out this new/old knife and put it on a whet stone flat with a spray bottle nearby to keep everything nice and wet.  I spent an entire day on one side and I've got at least that much more to do to flatten the first side.  I've been keeping track of progress with a sharpie.  The pits and variation of thickness are vast.

I have a fairly large floor mount belt sander.  

Question:  Do I just need a speed reducer to keep the blade from getting too hot?  Get this thing flat on both sides and then sharpen, strop and put to use?

Suggestions, advice, questions and constructive criticism is welcomed.

Thank you for reading.

 

 

As per Newbie regulations, I reside in Knoxville, TN.  I travel for work, so my location Varies.

use water to keep it cool grind a bit then dip in water. Take your time and you wont lose the temper. 

[CharlesG]

23 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

use water to keep it cool grind a bit then dip in water. Take your time and you wont lose the temper. 

Thanks, the belt sander worked like a champ.  Now to get a cutting edge on to it.

[AzShooter]

I must have been lucky.  I bought the Tandy Head Knife and have had no problems keeping the edge sharp.  I use a diamond stone and strop to keep it that way.

I just ordered a sharpening fixture from Weaver with an medium and fine stone.  The demo looked interesting and I'm going  to see if I can get it sharper still but it now cuts through 8-9 ounce leather very well.

[seagiant]

Hi,

         I was given the Tandy "Al Stohlman" model round knife.

The handle was a nice size but cut flat on the end, I rounded it on my belt sander and finished by hand and it is now comfortable.

Sharpened it at about 15 degrees, using the tips from the Leather Wrangler on sharpening head knives.

Went coarse, medium fine and finish with a soft Arkansas stone.

Then stropped with a rogue impregnated leather board.

Seems to work very well and better than my old Osborn?

Time will tell!

[ramrod]

On 4/25/2020 at 10:50 PM, bikermutt07 said:

I've owned two and gifted both of them away. The way I heard it, there isn't enough carbon in that steel to ever maintain an edge. 

 

that would confirm my suspicions. i've been able to keep an edge for only a short time with mine.i really need to get a high carbon blade.

[scrapyarddog]

I'm sure some masters have no problem using it, but I'd rather spend it bit more money to get something with higher HRC and toughness. If you can get one made of M390 or 20CV, you'll see a difference in edge retention.

[Klara]

On 2/11/2021 at 3:33 AM, ramrod said:

that would confirm my suspicions. i've been able to keep an edge for only a short time with mine.i really need to get a high carbon blade.

It's a question of taste. I find low-carbon blades much easier to maintain than stainless steel. 

[chuck123wapati]

14 hours ago, scrapyarddog said:

I'm sure some masters have no problem using it, but I'd rather spend it bit more money to get something with higher HRC and toughness. If you can get one made of M390 or 20CV, you'll see a difference in edge retention.

these steels can be screwed up just as easily and produce bad blades it is a matter of proper heat treatment that makes the blade. As well most folks don't have the equipment to test the hardness.

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, Klara said:

It's a question of taste. I find low-carbon blades much easier to maintain than stainless steel. 

all blades are made from high carbon steels but are tempered differently to produce the wanted hardness and temper. To hard and the steel becomes to brittle and can chip or break to soft and it wont hold an edge. I too prefer blades that are less hard so i can sharpen them with regular stones easily. 

[scrapyarddog]

7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

these steels can be screwed up just as easily and produce bad blades it is a matter of proper heat treatment that makes the blade. As well most folks don't have the equipment to test the hardness.

True, but I think it’s hard to deny that some steel provide better balance between hardness and toughness, and some steel just aren’t that great at maintaining an edge. Unless we are here saying that no matter the chemistry, all steel can perform the same.

[Klara]

Are there even any round knives on the market where the exact kind of steel is known?

I've been thinking whether I should ask my knife-making friend to make me one - or book a workshop to make one with his instruction - but I'd get two new Osbornes for the price, with a more certain outcome...

 

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, scrapyarddog said:

True, but I think it’s hard to deny that some steel provide better balance between hardness and toughness, and some steel just aren’t that great at maintaining an edge. Unless we are here saying that no matter the chemistry, all steel can perform the same.

Yes that is the chemistry of steel and why they make steels for certain uses, we are talking high carbon steels for use as knives.  Its the way it is produced that makes the quality of the blade more so than the type of High carbon steel that is used all that steel type talk you hear is mostly just hype to sell the product or bragging rights about an overpriced knife. Just a few degrees either way during the hardening or tempering stage can ruin or make the knife no matter the type of high carbon steel. Just my opinion I have made a lot of knives with the same steel and some were good and some had to be re hardened and re tempered because they weren't as good that's all part of a process that has been lost in mass production and why there are poor blades on the market. Of course there are producers out there that use low grade steel too.

 

[chuck123wapati]

7 hours ago, Klara said:

Are there even any round knives on the market where the exact kind of steel is known?

I've been thinking whether I should ask my knife-making friend to make me one - or book a workshop to make one with his instruction - but I'd get two new Osbornes for the price, with a more certain outcome...

 

Yes probably but usually if the steel is talked about the steel type becomes a selling point and reason to charge more not necessarily because it does a better job than another type at cutting leather. Your knife making friend can explain it better in person I'm sure. The reason people often prefer vintage tools is that the production processes were much stricter which overall produced blades that were more uniform from one to the other not that the steel was some new blend of metals. if that makes sense.

[Klara]

In one way it makes sense. In another not, because I figured that practically all industrial processes are now computer-controlled which should have made them a lot more repeatable...

I wonder whether the difference is not that once upon a time there were people in quality control who took pride in their work and their company's name. People whose jobs have been cut in the last decades...

And especially in leather tools the market nowadays consists of a huge amount of newcomers who don't know the difference and will buy anything. Preferably for the least amount of money possible...

[chuck123wapati]

21 minutes ago, Klara said:

 

"I wonder whether the difference is not that once upon a time there were people in quality control who took pride in their work and their company's name. "

exactly!  and why some folks say my new Cs Osborne is awesome others say it doesn't hold an edge. Knives are what led the steel industry in the beginning and the science behind good knife steel is hundreds if not thousands of years old. Other things though also come in to a good blade for leather The edge angle and grind are equally important to the sharpness of the blade. some of the newer blades i have seen use a sabre or even a convex grind whereas the older blades and better blades use a full flat grind this makes for a thinner blade at the leather and less drag during the cutting process but it also costs more to make which is another problem of modern manufacturing the bottom line now is all about profit.

[scrapyarddog]

9 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

Yes that is the chemistry of steel and why they make steels for certain uses, we are talking high carbon steels for use as knives.  Its the way it is produced that makes the quality of the blade more so than the type of High carbon steel that is used all that steel type talk you hear is mostly just hype to sell the product or bragging rights about an overpriced knife. Just a few degrees either way during the hardening or tempering stage can ruin or make the knife no matter the type of high carbon steel. Just my opinion I have made a lot of knives with the same steel and some were good and some had to be re hardened and re tempered because they weren't as good that's all part of a process that has been lost in mass production and why there are poor blades on the market. Of course there are producers out there that use low grade steel too.

 

As I don’t make blades or know how to heat treat, I can’t comment on that. All I can say is I do see differences in Tandy’s head knife, high carbon paring knife from Talas, CPM 154, S30V, D2, 20CV (LW), M390, certain “HSS”, and blue paper steel used by Okada. And if someone wants to get a reasonably good knife without knife making skills, there are good options out there. For sure, the treatment done by individual makers and blade geometry adopted make a difference, but if I had to choose, 20CV and M390. For crazy sharpness (but also a tad brittle), blue paper steel.

[Klara]

Can you tell us who makes leather tools out of 20CV or M390? Thanks!

[chuck123wapati]

6 hours ago, Klara said:

Can you tell us who makes leather tools out of 20CV or M390? Thanks!

If your blade is newer it may already be one of those and the reason we are talking about modern blades not being as well made. Heres the deal a knife blade steel has three properties. hardness, flexibility and toughness. These three attributes are variables in the matrix of what your knife is going to be used for.  A straight razor for example is made very hard  but it is so brittle it will break if dropped, a fro on the other hand isn't even made to be sharp but to be flexable and tough enough to hammer on without chipping or breaking. So what does you leather knife need to be? It needs to be built to cut leather. That quality will come from the manufacturing process not the steel type. A blade of 56 Rockwell hardness for example can be made from any of the modern tool steels and they will all be 56 Rockwell hardness none will be better or worse than the other all will sharpen the same and hold the same edge. When you buy a knife because of the steel type its like buying a car because its a Ford or a Chevy when you need to be buying because you need either a car or a truck to do the job. When you need to think of it in the terms of the job it is meant to do. You said earlier you like the ability to easily sharpen your knife, that comes from the hardness the blade is tempered to not the type of steel make sense?

Edited June 2, 2021 by chuck123wapati

[chuck123wapati]

13 hours ago, scrapyarddog said:

As I don’t make blades or know how to heat treat, I can’t comment on that. All I can say is I do see differences in Tandy’s head knife, high carbon paring knife from Talas, CPM 154, S30V, D2, 20CV (LW), M390, certain “HSS”, and blue paper steel used by Okada. And if someone wants to get a reasonably good knife without knife making skills, there are good options out there. For sure, the treatment done by individual makers and blade geometry adopted make a difference, but if I had to choose, 20CV and M390. For crazy sharpness (but also a tad brittle), blue paper steel.

the Tandy head knife being sold now is stainless steel so more than likely m390 which can be hardened to about rc 62 or some such, blue paper steel is a very old Japanese steel blend, one of the best, and  is usually tempered to a much harder scale up to 65 then tempered back to about 61 again the difference is the manufacturing process more so than the steel type either can be tempered to what you need or want. The difference you see is the hardness of the tool, simply the Tandy knives aren't tempered to the same hardness for whatever reason the makers decided on. You cant get a good knife without good knife making skills and why some knives are more expensive than others the craft is just like the leather craft, you can buy an off the shelf manufactured wallet at Walmart or you can buy a better wallet at a high end store, both are the same leather but neither are the same quality, one is cheaper to make because the craftsmanship and quality is lost in the bottom line. Hope that makes sense.

[scrapyarddog]

10 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

the Tandy head knife being sold now is stainless steel so more than likely m390 which can be hardened to about rc 62 or some such, blue paper steel is a very old Japanese steel blend, one of the best, and  is usually tempered to a much harder scale up to 65 then tempered back to about 61 again the difference is the manufacturing process more so than the steel type either can be tempered to what you need or want.

Tandy using M390?? Hmmm... I’ll shoot it with a spectrum analyzer tmrw and see. I’d be surprised if they use SS 201.

[chuck123wapati]

14 hours ago, scrapyarddog said:

Tandy using M390?? Hmmm... I’ll shoot it with a spectrum analyzer tmrw and see. I’d be surprised if they use SS 201.

it would be interesting to know. Keep me posted. I doubt it too however its way to hard to work and more for pocket knives and such. A round knife would cost hundreds and really again the average leather worker just doesn't need it, now maybe if you were cutting all day on a much larger scale.

Edited June 3, 2021 by chuck123wapati

[AzShooter]

If anyone wants to gift away their Tandy Head Knife please keep  me informed.  I could always use another one.  I watched a video from Weaver Leather Co about sharpening them.  Following their lead I was able to get mine sharp and keep it that way.

When cutting curves and angles there is nothing better than the Head Knife.