New member from the UK

[fredk]

A little tale.

I had a friend a long time ago who was a professional photographer in London. He still is. He used to carry small canvas money bags filled with pebbles to hang on his tripod as weights. More than once he used one of those bags to whack a mugger over the head. Met arrested my friend for using a 'sap'.   First time we'd heard that word. Case was dropped though. That was way back when you couldn't use any force to defend yourself.

I was once on the verge of being arrested for using a 'sap'. I used a money bag full of £1 coins to whack an armed robber about the body and head. I laid into him rightly.  Thats when I found out owning a sap is illegal in N.I.

[Matt S]

Just spoken with a friend who is a currently serving policeman. Neither of us can find saps or similar implement on the "naughty list" so they would appear quite legal to own, make, sell etc. (this side of the Bristol Channel @fredk!) but they clearly count as "made or adapted to cause injury" and therefore not legal for general carry without "good reason or lawful authority".

It goes without saying that I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. The above is simply two chaps' personal opinions.

@Raindog951 going back to your original post, I like hardboard for making larger templates. It's easily cut, drilled and shaped even using basic hand tools; you can layout directly on it with pen or pencil, or glue a paper pattern to it; it's nice and grippy on the back (doesn't slide around like acrylic); it's dimensionally stable so long as you keep it dry; and it's dead cheap -- an 8x4 is usually under a tenner, and if you ask at your local timber yard you can usually get big offcuts for pennies.

[fredk]

Maybe if we looked under the regular UK name; a cosh

There is a reverse to this. There is a list of what 'weapons' are legal to carry, if its not on the list then its illegal

[Matt S]

2 minutes ago, fredk said:

Maybe if we looked under the regular UK name; a cosh

There is a reverse to this. There is a list of what 'weapons' are legal to carry, if its not on the list then its illegal

"cosh" doesn't appear in the relevant Act, nor the Schedules to the Act (we looked at that, as well as "blackjack"). It's pretty short list of what's outright banned TBH. About the only blunt instruments on the list are fixed and friction-locked batons (truncheons).

If you can find such a list of "allowed weapons" I would be interested to read it, but honestly I doubt that such a thing exists from any reputable source.

[fredk]

39 minutes ago, Matt S said:

If you can find such a list of "allowed weapons" I would be interested to read it, but honestly I doubt that such a thing exists from any reputable source.

The secretary of the historical presentation group I was in had the list. An official Gov list. We had the complete list but only required the part on bladed weapons. It said afair eg. a dirk; as part of the traditional Scots dress, /  single edged blade of less than 4 inches length, /  chef's knives; in conjunction with work, to and from place of work / that sort of thing. It ran to several pages. Cosh, baton, night-sticks and other were in the blunt instrument section. Even the PSNI sometimes asked us for a copy of the list. Individuals who knew us had recourse to use our info

as before; caveat, GB and N.I. laws can differ

[Matt S]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

The secretary of the historical presentation group I was in had the list. An official Gov list. We had the complete list but only required the part on bladed weapons. It said afair eg. a dirk; as part of the traditional Scots dress, /  single edged blade of less than 4 inches length, /  chef's knives; in conjunction with work, to and from place of work / that sort of thing. It ran to several pages. Cosh, baton, night-sticks and other were in the blunt instrument section. Even the PSNI sometimes asked us for a copy of the list. Individuals who knew us had recourse to use our info

as before; caveat, GB and N.I. laws can differ

 Well you can't get much more official than that! How specific was it? Plenty of guidance on bladed articles, often from major police forces/services available over here but not a bean have I found regarding coshes/saps/blackjacks.

I wonder if anyone from a reenactment group from GB has a similar list, or some other specific guidance regarding blunt weapons?

[Raindog951]

Thanks to all for the information. I can rest a bit easier in my bed tonight, knowing that my project won't land me in the slammer!

       Time to make something more wholesome now  

[kiwican]

Saw these for sale today for 40 dollars Canadian each. I say make em and sell! get some of that wholesome cash...This hobby is like a drug and you're gonna need a way to fund your new habit

[chrisash]

I doubt it would be considered a weapon in the UK if it was used as intended filled with money and you did not have another pocket full of change as well. never heard of a walking stick being used to defend yourself, being classed as a weapon, but probably more effective than a cosh

To use as a cosh would be very dangerous if hitting someone on the head as easily lead to a manslaughter or murder charge, as heads can be very thin and not absorb much unlike those pistol whipped cowboys

ps on sale on Wish and etsy at £5.0 thought of buying or making one as a good way to carry small change, but my coshing or saping days are over with old age

 

[zuludog]

Have a browse through YouTube, several channels offer patterns & templates for wallets, including JH Leather, Nigel Armitage, and Ian Atkinson. Similarly for belts and other items

For template material I use artist's/photographer's mounting board; from The Range or your local art store; could also use breakfast cereal packets

I use cereal packets to make mock - ups of items, to get an idea of what the final article will look like; sequence of construction, and so on

Do you know there is a British knife making & collecting forum? www.edgematters.uk It is subscription but it's only £5 pa via Paypal, which is more of a screening for serious users really

Speaking of cosh's years ago a friend was a steward/marshal at events like rock music festivals, football matches, and so on. He used to keep the crowd in order with a rolled up newspaper.......but it was rolled up round a chair leg.

Edited July 25, 2020 by zuludog