How do you sharpen a round blade for a 1 in 1?

[SheltathaLore]

I've got a Landis 1 in 1 that I picked up off Craigslist; it's in pretty good shape, except that the blade is dull and a bit notched.

How on earth do you sharpen one of these blades? I'd rather not replace it; too many sellers only sell to businesses, and replacements aren't cheap.

[Aven]

You could make something like this.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvLEFFP8qLA    

Shape the horizontal piece the blade clamps to a hair narrower that the blade itself and round the jutting end a hair bit smaller than the blade, and mark the center of the blade.  Drill it out for a threaded insert so you can screw the blade down.  You'll need to fiddle with it to figure out the correct angle for the paddle, but pretty much straight forward.  The key to this is being able to screw the blade in the same place each time.

Or you can try one of the professional sharpening services in the Seattle area. 

[SheltathaLore]

1 hour ago, Aven said:

Or you can try one of the professional sharpening services in the Seattle area. 

That... actually didn't occur to me.  I'll look into it. Thanks for the idea!

Edited August 15, 2020 by SheltathaLore

[Spyros]

5 hours ago, SheltathaLore said:

I've got a Landis 1 in 1 that I picked up off Craigslist; it's in pretty good shape, except that the blade is dull and a bit notched.

How on earth do you sharpen one of these blades? I'd rather not replace it; too many sellers only sell to businesses, and replacements aren't cheap.

Sorry I'm not familiar with this blade, I can see a photo on google, but how big is it?  Reason I'm asking, maybe you could mount it with a bolt and a couple of nuts and washers in a drill or drill press, spin it, and carefully run a file and then some sandpaper along the edge.  Carefully though, this thing looks dangerous.

 

[SheltathaLore]

On 8/15/2020 at 4:20 PM, Spyros said:

Sorry I'm not familiar with this blade, I can see a photo on google, but how big is it?  Reason I'm asking, maybe you could mount it with a bolt and a couple of nuts and washers in a drill or drill press, spin it, and carefully run a file and then some sandpaper along the edge.  Carefully though, this thing looks dangerous.

 

It's two inches wide or so.  I would rather not die...

[Spyros]

9 hours ago, SheltathaLore said:

I would rather not die...

Thats a good attitude :D

Yeah that's how I'd do it:  find a large bolt, threaded all the way to the bolt head, put it through the cutter hole with a large steel washer on each side of the cutter, and tighten it all up with a couple of nuts.  Then put the bolt on a drill press (ideally) or a just drill held steadily somewhere, and then spin it.  you don't have to spin it too fast, once it starts moving you will be able to tell straight away what is the state of the blade.   If it looks straight and sharp without any cuts and bruises so to speak, all you need to do is carefully hold some sandpaper or a sharpening stone on the side of the blade for a few seconds, then flip the blade over and do the same on the other side, and then work you way up the grits.  Repeat the process until you're happy with the result.  If the blade is in a bad shape and you need to shape it first then you'll have to start with a file or a low grit stone.  

Make sure to mount the bolt tightly on the drill chuck, and start the spinning very slowly, until you're 100% certain everything is secure and firmly in place, and the blade doesn't wobble and it won't go flying on you.

Anyway you choose to do it, take your time and be careful.  If you feel uncomfortable at any point just leave it and send it to a pro to sharpen, our fingers are more important than our blades

Edited August 18, 2020 by Spyros

[bruce johnson]

I've got a pretty well equipped shop for refurbishing and sharpening and cant think of a damn thing I have to spin it slow enough to be safe with any of these suggestions or risk damaging the temper in the edge. It is going to take some precision equipment to keep the bevel angle the same even if you could spin it. Pretty much all the stock removal to get the notches cleared needs to be done on the bevel side. You can take a bur off the flat side but remove any metal to speak of and you've got a gap to the feedwheel. .Shoe Systems Plus took over from Pilgrim Shoe who had a good stock of replacement blades.  I don't know what Shoe Systems Plus has for blades now or what they charge, but that's who I'd be on the phone with first thing tomorrow.  

[Spyros]

By definition anything you sharpen by hand you risk changing the bevel of the angle.    But somehow these people here are supposed to sharpen round knives and microscopic stitching awl bevels by hand.

[RockyAussie]

On 8/16/2020 at 4:00 AM, SheltathaLore said:

I've got a Landis 1 in 1 that I picked up off Craigslist; it's in pretty good shape, except that the blade is dull and a bit notched.

How on earth do you sharpen one of these blades? I'd rather not replace it; too many sellers only sell to businesses, and replacements aren't cheap.

I don't believe you can sharpen those as any thing you take off will leave a gap and there is no adjustment on them, least not on any of the ones I ever had. There are blades that have notches and you can get blades that are plain so best be sure you get the plain ones unless you need to cut sole leather on shoes.

[Matt S]

First result I found (to see what shape the thing was) appears to have them for $125. Might be worth the price to avoid any hassle and get making shoes. http://www.shoesystemsplus.com/Landis-1-in1-Round-Cutting-Blade_p_452.html

There's a few ways you could approach the job, but I would be very careful about spinning the blade under power. I would see if I could set up some arrangement where I could advance the blade into the stone in controlled amounts at a controlled, measured angle and turn the blade by hand -- similar to a milling cutter grinder though obviously not needing nearly so much precision. Ideally I'd use the water-cooled stone on my Tormek, as that has a precisely adjustable guide bar for stability and would avoid any heat issues. If that weren't an option though I would build a jig for my small belt grinder, with a a fine belt. Heat would be a big issue but I could probably mitigate that with an air nozzle zip tied to the grinding jig.

Once the main grinding was done, I would lap the backside flat on a piece of wet & dry on a piece of glass. Just take the burr off and no material off the backside, as Bruce says.

Then, depending on what results the new edge gives, that may have to be repeated with a finer grit, and finally a strop.

Not having a ranger machine in the shop, what range of blade diameters will the Landis tolerate, and how far will you have to grind to get the nicks out?

Having now typed that all out, if it were me I would be mashing the "buy now" button so hard the website would be wincing.

 

4 hours ago, Spyros said:

By definition anything you sharpen by hand you risk changing the bevel of the angle.    But somehow these people here are supposed to sharpen round knives and microscopic stitching awl bevels by hand.

Jealousy is not a becoming look. 
 

[Spyros]

Yeah very jealous... I'd rather shovel shit than having to sharpen a diamond shaped needle

[Matt S]

4 minutes ago, Spyros said:

Yeah very jealous... I'd rather shovel shit than having to sharpen a diamond shaped needle

Having done plenty of both, I far prefer my hands to smell of kerosene when I get home so I'll take you up on your proposed exchange! 

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

Having done plenty of both, I far prefer my hands to smell of kerosene when I get home so I'll take you up on your proposed exchange! 

LOL Ditto just made a couple diamond blades from bare stock, was very easy on the back and didn't stink a bit. 

[Spyros]

Yeah well, and I push things with my hands against spinning blades every day without freaking out about it, like millions do.  Table saw, band saw, circular saw... Big spinning blades LOL

[SheltathaLore]

All right, sounds like sharpening it myself is a Big Nope. I'll probably go check out Shoe Systems, and possibly call a local sharpening service to see how they feel about sharpening it (although they mostly do knives, so it may be out of their wheelhouse.)

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

[slipangle]

Realizing this thread is old and that, hopefully,  you've purchased a new blade, but if you wanted to keep the old blade as a spare and get it fixed up,  I would try to find a service in your area that sharpens carbide tools, like saw blades,  router bits, etc. They may have the fixture necessary, or could rig one up,  to hold this blade, and rotate it, against the rapidly spinning grinding wheel.

My second choice would be a well outfitted machine shop. One that has a surface grinding machine. It's likely this blade was made on a surface grinder and if there are nicks in the edge, the primary bevel needs to be re-ground and then a secondary bevel ground onto it to sharpen it. With an ultra fine stone, polished, etc. Could or would a machine shop do this? Unknown. But it's worth checking out, I think,  given the price of replacement blades.

The only way I would try to do this at home would be to rotate the blade slowly, held somehow in the headstock of a metal lathe, which I have, and ground using a tool post mounted grinder,  which I don't.

[Frodo]

do you have access to a belt sander?

tilt the table on the sander that your work sits on up in the front, the degree of the bevel

mount the blade on a piece of angle iron with a bolt in the center holding it to the angle iron

slide the angle iron with blade attached against belt sander

WHY??? a brass closet bolt???   the head is flat, will not impede the blade 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Frodo

[Frodo]

On 8/18/2020 at 8:54 AM, Spyros said:

Yeah well, and I push things with my hands against spinning blades every day without freaking out about it, like millions do.  Table saw, band saw, circular saw... Big spinning blades LOL

LOL LOL.ME TOO    or #metoo     and i have a thumb 1/4'' shorter than the other thumb and a index fingger with the tip missing. I know the ER guys by first name and have added them to my Christmas card list.  

 

[Matt S]

2 hours ago, slipangle said:

Realizing this thread is old and that, hopefully,  you've purchased a new blade, but if you wanted to keep the old blade as a spare and get it fixed up,  I would try to find a service in your area that sharpens carbide tools, like saw blades,  router bits, etc. They may have the fixture necessary, or could rig one up,  to hold this blade, and rotate it, against the rapidly spinning grinding wheel.

My second choice would be a well outfitted machine shop. One that has a surface grinding machine. It's likely this blade was made on a surface grinder and if there are nicks in the edge, the primary bevel needs to be re-ground and then a secondary bevel ground onto it to sharpen it. With an ultra fine stone, polished, etc. Could or would a machine shop do this? Unknown. But it's worth checking out, I think,  given the price of replacement blades.

The only way I would try to do this at home would be to rotate the blade slowly, held somehow in the headstock of a metal lathe, which I have, and ground using a tool post mounted grinder,  which I don't.

What about a tool cutter grinder, with the blade in a mandrel in the toolholder? I've never used one but they seem pretty ubiquitous in machine shops.

[Spyros]

Frodo, maybe stick to leatherworking.

[slipangle]

19 hours ago, Matt S said:

What about a tool cutter grinder, with the blade in a mandrel in the toolholder? I've never used one but they seem pretty ubiquitous in machine shops.

That might be another good option, Matt.   I used to have a fairly elaborate jig/fixture...Delta as I remember, that was designed for sharpening drills, and it might've worked well for something like this. A cutter grinding fixture in a machine shop might be just the ticket.

I've seen videos of guys adapting a Dremel mounted to the compound of a metal lathe to be used as a tool post grinder as well. A clever alternative to a very expensive Dumore tool post grinder or similar.

Edited October 24, 2020 by slipangle

[Frodo]

here is the basic idea.  you can adjust the jig to hold your round blade