Straight or angled stitching iron? and question

[Whit30]

Hello,

I want to up my game in the quality of my hand stitching and I am looking at new irons.

Is there a difference  other than just looks between the straight or angled irons? For the price, I am looking at the French style Crimson Hide irons or SinaBroks.  Any suggestions on these or should I look at another?

I mainly will be doing wallets, portfolios\notebooks, knife sheaths and a few bags. Would a 4 mm set be a good all around size for these items or would another size be better suited to work for everything since I cannot afford two sets right now.

Any suggestions would be very appreciated. Thank you!

Edited November 24, 2020 by Whit30

[chrisash]

For wallets eyc I use 3.38 mm size using 0.6 tiger thread and french style irons, but there is no set rule

[mike02130]

3.0 or 3.38 if you want to go higher end.  3.0 makes it easier to make your own patterns; easier math.  4.0 mm is pretty chunky and is better suited for sheaths and the like.  When you say round irons are you meaning round dent (dente=tooth in Latin) irons?  If so, yes there is a difference.  The angled irons are the hallmark for showing an angled saddle stitch and make for a more defined and better looking stitch.  For those size irons I recommend .45-.6 mm thread.  There is a big difference between Sinabroks and Crimson Hides' irons.

The Sinabroks are excellent and have their pros and cons.  I have KS Blades and  had Sinabroks which I sold. I prefer the KS Blades.  The Sinabroks pros are that they are shiny (if you like that?) and their teeth come highly polished. The cons are that their handles are round which takes more effort to hold and keep from twisting in the hand.  The point end is flat and dull and need sharpening.  Being flat takes more concentration and skill to center it in a scribed stitch-line.  One's hand will smell of brass.  

KS,  looks more industrial and has an oblongish tapered handle that is round on two sides and flat on the other two sides making it more comfortable in the hand and easier to maneuver.  The end of the teeth have a round taper which is narrower than the SBs making easier to center in a stitch line.  They most likely could use a bit of sharpening but not necessary.  The teeth are not polished and need a bit of work.  

The polished teeth make it easier to pull the irons out of the hole.  The Sinabroks can be owner repaired with a kit while the KS need to be shipped to Korea for repair.  

There are top tier and lower and bottom tier irons.  The KS and Sinabroks are top tier. 

You're looking at $200 bucks for either set.

 

[Tugadude]

9 hours ago, Whit30 said:

Hello,

I want to up my game in the quality of my hand stitching and I am looking at new irons.

Is there a difference  other than just looks between the straight or angled irons? For the price, I am looking at the French style Crimson Hide irons or SinaBroks.  Any suggestions on these or should I look at another?

I mainly will be doing wallets, portfolios\notebooks, knife sheaths and a few bags. Would a 4 mm set be a good all around size for these items or would another size be better suited to work for everything since I cannot afford two sets right now.

Any suggestions would be very appreciated. Thank you!

I suggest you check out the new irons that Springfield Leather Company is selling.  For the money, they are among the best I've seen.  The teeth are very smooth and they come out of the leather very easily.  The holes they create are fairly small in comparison to some other irons out there.  Smaller tends to be better, in my opinion, so long as they have enough angle to make your stitches reflect the angle.  If you re doing wallets and such, the 3.0mm and 0.6mm thread would be a nice combo.

https://www.springfieldleather.com/Craftmaster-3mm-Diamond-Point-Stitching-Chisel

 

The chisels make a diamond-shaped hole.  I showed the holes in another thread.

 

[Tugadude]

I also suggest checking out the following thread for more info.  Nigel Armitage has reviewed both of the irons that you are considering, I believe, so check out his videos on them if you haven't.

 

 

[Hardrada]

KS Blade 3.38 is a good all-round chisel for all your intended purposes. They're very sharp and solid and will punch through thick leather or several layers. For wallets you'd want tighter spacing and thinner thread. I do the same as @chrisash.

[mike02130]

11 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Nigel Armitage has reviewed both of the irons that you are considering, I believe, so check out his videos on them if you haven't.

The issue I have with Nigel is his lack of criticism. Quite a bit of the tools he reviews are given to him.  I'm not dissin the guy but I do question his reviews.  I think a better and more objective source is Leathertoolz on You Tube.

[Tugadude]

Nigel demonstrates the irons so the proof is in the pudding as they say.  If they're rubbish, the work will reflect that.  

[Danne]

16 hours ago, Tugadude said:

I suggest you check out the new irons that Springfield Leather Company is selling.  For the money, they are among the best I've seen.  The teeth are very smooth and they come out of the leather very easily.  The holes they create are fairly small in comparison to some other irons out there.  Smaller tends to be better, in my opinion, so long as they have enough angle to make your stitches reflect the angle.  If you re doing wallets and such, the 3.0mm and 0.6mm thread would be a nice combo.

https://www.springfieldleather.com/Craftmaster-3mm-Diamond-Point-Stitching-Chisel

 

The chisels make a diamond-shaped hole.  I showed the holes in another thread.

 

Looks like some old irons I bought from Aliexpress (A lot cheaper) and they do the job.

Regarding Ksblade, an alternative is Kevinlee's premium irons. (I have both Ksblade and Kevinlee) I have some Japenese style irons too, but I prefer the European style. 

Kevinlee's irons make awesome holes. Ksblade is a little easier to align, and Kevin's irons is a little top heavy. But his irons is very good value for you money. https://www.kevinleathertools.com/products/kl-french-style-pricking-iron-1

[Tugadude]

It isn't often that the actual product looks better than the advertising photos, but I feel that is the case with the new irons SLC is stocking.  I have no doubt that they aren't "new" in reality, but they are new to SLC.  They are highly polished and they pull nicely from the leather.  I tested them on two layers of 4 oz. and they came back out with little friction.

I'm not suggesting that these compare in quality to Crimson Hides, Kevin Lee or KS Blade.  What I am saying is that they are very nice and cost a fraction of the price.  Time will tell if they hold up.  I am beginning a larger project soon and that will test them.  

This is some scrap with some stitching lines for comparison.  Also, notice the small (relatively) holes made by the SLC 3.0 irons.

[mike02130]

11 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Nigel demonstrates the irons so the proof is in the pudding as they say.  If they're rubbish, the work will reflect that.  

That may be true for experienced leather workers but may not be the case for the less experienced.

[chrisash]

Its near impossible to compare french style irons to diamond point and all irons seem to have improved immensely over the last couple of years, with nearly all polished to a high degree. as with most things the difference between the high priced items, are sometimes hard to spot, after all there is only so much you can do when making 1-8 or more slits in leather, and hope to sell them

[Tugadude]

37 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Its near impossible to compare french style irons to diamond point and all irons seem to have improved immensely over the last couple of years, with nearly all polished to a high degree. as with most things the difference between the high priced items, are sometimes hard to spot, after all there is only so much you can do when making 1-8 or more slits in leather, and hope to sell them

I agree with the statement about comparing French style to diamond point irons.  You are also correct that there has literally been an explosion of irons onto the market.  Like any tool, there is no such thing as perfect, but there are enough irons on the market now that finding one "perfect" for an individual is more likely than ever before.  The problem is the trial-and-error one must go through in order to find that style.  There have been a number of threads here at the forum where folks were selling off sets of irons that they decided weren't up to their expectations.  That is one reason I asked that a "sticky" thread be established as a resource for folks to hopefully narrow down their selection process.

Some irons are nearly perfect for an individual and may require some extra polishing.  That is no different from awl blades that are purchased and then sharpened and/or polished to a desired level by the purchaser.

Certainly the more one pays, the less work is expected.  A $90.00 individual iron should be ready to go out of the box.

The bottom line is even novices can attain a high level of stitching with an adequate tool and some proper instruction.  It isn't brain surgery, it is making some slits and inserting some thread.  I stumbled and bumbled my way through trying to learn the saddle stitch before I found a video from Nigel Armitage that unlocked the secrets for me.  It allowed me to make a functional and aesthetically-pleasing stitch that was repeatable.  I will forever be in his debt.  That is one reason why I recommend his videos highly.

[Danne]

27 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

I agree with the statement about comparing French style to diamond point irons.  You are also correct that there has literally been an explosion of irons onto the market.  Like any tool, there is no such thing as perfect, but there are enough irons on the market now that finding one "perfect" for an individual is more likely than ever before.  The problem is the trial-and-error one must go through in order to find that style.  There have been a number of threads here at the forum where folks were selling off sets of irons that they decided weren't up to their expectations.  That is one reason I asked that a "sticky" thread be established as a resource for folks to hopefully narrow down their selection process.

Some irons are nearly perfect for an individual and may require some extra polishing.  That is no different from awl blades that are purchased and then sharpened and/or polished to a desired level by the purchaser.

Certainly the more one pays, the less work is expected.  A $90.00 individual iron should be ready to go out of the box.

The bottom line is even novices can attain a high level of stitching with an adequate tool and some proper instruction.  It isn't brain surgery, it is making some slits and inserting some thread.  I stumbled and bumbled my way through trying to learn the saddle stitch before I found a video from Nigel Armitage that unlocked the secrets for me.  It allowed me to make a functional and aesthetically-pleasing stitch that was repeatable.  I will forever be in his debt.  That is one reason why I recommend his videos highly.

It's interesting how different we all are. I find that stitching is the absolutely hardest part with this craft. Sure stitching stiffer thicker veg tan with a decent result was relatively easy to learn. But when things start to become thin, and combinations with different temper on leather, I find that I use a lot of different angles and tension, and sometimes the result is good, other times I can't get it as I like. But of course I get better and better the more I practice. But still if I for example compare with skiving edges, I find skiving edges with consistent results super easy compared to stitching.

[mike02130]

The original poster was interested in French irons and Crimson Hides vs Sianbroks.   It seems to be getting lost.

[jcuk]

You can get a straight stitch using angled pricking irons also you can achieve a straight stitch using stitching chisels just don't  punch all the way through your work, its the way you use you awl - don't follow the angle of the mark hold it flat and pierce your work and pull the stitch level both sides of your work, and then i did punch all the way through the leather to see if you can get a straight that way and yes you can get a straight stitch using the same method the stitching chisels, i used were Craftool fine stitching chisels they can give a nice enough stitch angled or not. So the answer might be if you can achieve both stitching styles using angled irons these would be the ones i would go for.

As for calling them French style stitching irons not for me Dixons Osborne and of course Blanchard were all angled so if someone can shed some light on why they are suddenly being called French style pricking irons, i could be wrong so if someone can put me right please say. 

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

[mike02130]

1 hour ago, jcuk said:

You can get a straight stitch using angled pricking irons also you can achieve a straight stitch using stitching chisels just don't  punch all the way through your work, its the way you use you awl - don't follow the angle of the mark hold it flat and pierce your work and pull the stitch level both sides of your work, and then i did punch all the way through the leather to see if you can get a straight that way and yes you can get a straight stitch using the same method the stitching chisels, i used were Craftool fine stitching chisels they can give a nice enough stitch angled or not. So the answer might be if you can achieve both stitching styles using angled irons these would be the ones i would go for.

As for calling them French style stitching irons not for me Dixons Osborne and of course Blanchard were all angled so if someone can shed some light on why they are suddenly being called French style pricking irons, i could be wrong so if someone can put me right please say. 

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

I'm only guessing but in the USA there seems to be a new found popularity in leatherwork these past few years and especially since the plague came to visit.  They just used to be  called pricking irons, such as Dixon, Osborne and the like. Japanese style diamond stitching chisels are very popular with beginners and the cosplay world.  Many get their start at Tandy and shop cheaply on Amazon.  More recently round dent and horizontal irons are on the market.  Many not in the know refer to all styles as pricking irons rather than  "stitching chisels" like Japanese/diamond chisels.  And then there are round dent and flat dent punches and whatever else is out there.  I see some makers marketing the pricking irons as "French style".  Kevin Lee, Crimson Hides and cheap Chinese knock offs have all jumped on that band wagon.  I suppose it is to differentiate between the real thing and the others(?) and to those not knowing better.  In other words, a marketing term.  Of course this is all conjecture.

[jcuk]

23 minutes ago, mike02130 said:

Of course this is all conjecture

Or it could be Chinese whispers

[Whit30]

Thank you all very much for the input and advice. A lot to think about. I want to look at all of the info carefully before any additional questions. Thanks again!