Straight or angled stitching iron? and question

[mike02130]

11 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Nigel demonstrates the irons so the proof is in the pudding as they say.  If they're rubbish, the work will reflect that.  

That may be true for experienced leather workers but may not be the case for the less experienced.

[chrisash]

Its near impossible to compare french style irons to diamond point and all irons seem to have improved immensely over the last couple of years, with nearly all polished to a high degree. as with most things the difference between the high priced items, are sometimes hard to spot, after all there is only so much you can do when making 1-8 or more slits in leather, and hope to sell them

[Tugadude]

37 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Its near impossible to compare french style irons to diamond point and all irons seem to have improved immensely over the last couple of years, with nearly all polished to a high degree. as with most things the difference between the high priced items, are sometimes hard to spot, after all there is only so much you can do when making 1-8 or more slits in leather, and hope to sell them

I agree with the statement about comparing French style to diamond point irons.  You are also correct that there has literally been an explosion of irons onto the market.  Like any tool, there is no such thing as perfect, but there are enough irons on the market now that finding one "perfect" for an individual is more likely than ever before.  The problem is the trial-and-error one must go through in order to find that style.  There have been a number of threads here at the forum where folks were selling off sets of irons that they decided weren't up to their expectations.  That is one reason I asked that a "sticky" thread be established as a resource for folks to hopefully narrow down their selection process.

Some irons are nearly perfect for an individual and may require some extra polishing.  That is no different from awl blades that are purchased and then sharpened and/or polished to a desired level by the purchaser.

Certainly the more one pays, the less work is expected.  A $90.00 individual iron should be ready to go out of the box.

The bottom line is even novices can attain a high level of stitching with an adequate tool and some proper instruction.  It isn't brain surgery, it is making some slits and inserting some thread.  I stumbled and bumbled my way through trying to learn the saddle stitch before I found a video from Nigel Armitage that unlocked the secrets for me.  It allowed me to make a functional and aesthetically-pleasing stitch that was repeatable.  I will forever be in his debt.  That is one reason why I recommend his videos highly.

[Danne]

27 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

I agree with the statement about comparing French style to diamond point irons.  You are also correct that there has literally been an explosion of irons onto the market.  Like any tool, there is no such thing as perfect, but there are enough irons on the market now that finding one "perfect" for an individual is more likely than ever before.  The problem is the trial-and-error one must go through in order to find that style.  There have been a number of threads here at the forum where folks were selling off sets of irons that they decided weren't up to their expectations.  That is one reason I asked that a "sticky" thread be established as a resource for folks to hopefully narrow down their selection process.

Some irons are nearly perfect for an individual and may require some extra polishing.  That is no different from awl blades that are purchased and then sharpened and/or polished to a desired level by the purchaser.

Certainly the more one pays, the less work is expected.  A $90.00 individual iron should be ready to go out of the box.

The bottom line is even novices can attain a high level of stitching with an adequate tool and some proper instruction.  It isn't brain surgery, it is making some slits and inserting some thread.  I stumbled and bumbled my way through trying to learn the saddle stitch before I found a video from Nigel Armitage that unlocked the secrets for me.  It allowed me to make a functional and aesthetically-pleasing stitch that was repeatable.  I will forever be in his debt.  That is one reason why I recommend his videos highly.

It's interesting how different we all are. I find that stitching is the absolutely hardest part with this craft. Sure stitching stiffer thicker veg tan with a decent result was relatively easy to learn. But when things start to become thin, and combinations with different temper on leather, I find that I use a lot of different angles and tension, and sometimes the result is good, other times I can't get it as I like. But of course I get better and better the more I practice. But still if I for example compare with skiving edges, I find skiving edges with consistent results super easy compared to stitching.

[mike02130]

The original poster was interested in French irons and Crimson Hides vs Sianbroks.   It seems to be getting lost.

[jcuk]

You can get a straight stitch using angled pricking irons also you can achieve a straight stitch using stitching chisels just don't  punch all the way through your work, its the way you use you awl - don't follow the angle of the mark hold it flat and pierce your work and pull the stitch level both sides of your work, and then i did punch all the way through the leather to see if you can get a straight that way and yes you can get a straight stitch using the same method the stitching chisels, i used were Craftool fine stitching chisels they can give a nice enough stitch angled or not. So the answer might be if you can achieve both stitching styles using angled irons these would be the ones i would go for.

As for calling them French style stitching irons not for me Dixons Osborne and of course Blanchard were all angled so if someone can shed some light on why they are suddenly being called French style pricking irons, i could be wrong so if someone can put me right please say. 

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

[mike02130]

1 hour ago, jcuk said:

You can get a straight stitch using angled pricking irons also you can achieve a straight stitch using stitching chisels just don't  punch all the way through your work, its the way you use you awl - don't follow the angle of the mark hold it flat and pierce your work and pull the stitch level both sides of your work, and then i did punch all the way through the leather to see if you can get a straight that way and yes you can get a straight stitch using the same method the stitching chisels, i used were Craftool fine stitching chisels they can give a nice enough stitch angled or not. So the answer might be if you can achieve both stitching styles using angled irons these would be the ones i would go for.

As for calling them French style stitching irons not for me Dixons Osborne and of course Blanchard were all angled so if someone can shed some light on why they are suddenly being called French style pricking irons, i could be wrong so if someone can put me right please say. 

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

I'm only guessing but in the USA there seems to be a new found popularity in leatherwork these past few years and especially since the plague came to visit.  They just used to be  called pricking irons, such as Dixon, Osborne and the like. Japanese style diamond stitching chisels are very popular with beginners and the cosplay world.  Many get their start at Tandy and shop cheaply on Amazon.  More recently round dent and horizontal irons are on the market.  Many not in the know refer to all styles as pricking irons rather than  "stitching chisels" like Japanese/diamond chisels.  And then there are round dent and flat dent punches and whatever else is out there.  I see some makers marketing the pricking irons as "French style".  Kevin Lee, Crimson Hides and cheap Chinese knock offs have all jumped on that band wagon.  I suppose it is to differentiate between the real thing and the others(?) and to those not knowing better.  In other words, a marketing term.  Of course this is all conjecture.

[jcuk]

23 minutes ago, mike02130 said:

Of course this is all conjecture

Or it could be Chinese whispers

[Whit30]

Thank you all very much for the input and advice. A lot to think about. I want to look at all of the info carefully before any additional questions. Thanks again!