Newbie query on lining billfold and making ID pocket

[PhilDimashq]

@Rahere thanks for the tip, I just hopped over to have a look 

Not much info on the site so I dropped them an email to see what they have, costs and so on. Thanks again, Phil

Edited November 27, 2020 by PhilDimashq

[chrisash]

Phil

You can get a selection of leather pieces in A4 and 30x60cm from https://www.artisanleather.co.uk/ if it help and they offer a great service and very friendly, great for the small items rather than buying a shoulder of something just to make a wallet

[PhilDimashq]

@chrisash thanks 

[Hardrada]

9 hours ago, PhilDimashq said:

Assuming you had the right materials, how would you make the ID pocket alone? Would it be three layers of leather?

Only two, unless you need it lined.

Here's one I made some time ago out of some scrap Badalassi 2.5 oz (which is almost 3 oz as you can see):

 

 

Two layers make it ~6 oz:

 

Please, use that only as an example of basic construction, and don't use it as model/reference for the pattern, though, for it's wrong: you can see I cut the window too large and there's barely enough leather to hold onto the card once it's inserted. Of course, if you're stitching the plastic cover in place, you won't have the card popping out by itself, but I'd still leave at least 1/8" more leather inwards past the stitch line.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Hardrada

[Hardrada]

Going back to your (our) wallet(s):

I use scrap (belly) veg tan to make a test run when tackling a project I haven't made before. Here I cut some panels for the wallet I'll eventually, God willing, make out of chevre (or maybe I'll make as @Danne and use different leather for the outer cover and the chevre for the inside panels—still thinking about it...):

 

That's 3 oz, like yours:

 

Once you put two layers together and a liner it goes over 8 oz (double that once you fold it):

 

Once you add the inner panels, it goes to ~13 oz! Again, double that once folded...

 

And that's with only one bill compartment and only one side of it lined. Add 1 mm (2.5 oz) if you want to line the inner panel too, and if you have two bill compartments... oh my.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Hardrada

[Hardrada]

Not trying to hijack your thread, but this is the problem I'm facing now: the client wants this one replicated:

 

You can see it has an ID compartment with plastic cover too:

 

That ID window is a better model for you than my poor attempt I posted above: see how there's more leather towards the inside. That's made of two layers of leather only, so there's confirmation for you: use only two layers.

The leather in that wallet is >1 mm thick, but they kinda "cheated" when making it too: all the liners and some dividers are thin fabric, not leather:

 

Once folded and closed, it's a brick:

Edited November 27, 2020 by Hardrada

[Danne]

3 minutes ago, Hardrada said:

Going back to your (our) wallet(s):

I use scrap (belly) veg tan to make a test run when tackling a project I haven't made before. Here I cut some panels for the wallet I'll eventually, God willing, make out of chevre (or maybe I'll make as @Danne and use different leather for the outer cover and the chevre for the inside panels—still thinking about it...):

 

That's 3 oz, like yours:

 

Once you put two layers together and a liner it goes over 8 oz (double that once you fold it):

 

Once you add the inner panels, it goes to ~13 oz! Again, double that once folded...

My exterior is 2.5oz, and card pockets slightly under 2.5oz. Also keep in mind that my card holder (I think you are referring to my last brown card holder) is skived, both the exterior lining is skived under card sections, and the top layer of the card sections are skived at the exterior edges, and also some skiving on the card pockets (outside of the stitching) so my edge thickness is around 2mm. If I would make the same card holder with veg tan interior the edges would be slightly thicker because I wouldn't skive the card pockets because from my experience they risk breaking the stitch that overlap the edge instead of stretching a little bit like chevre does. 

In my opinion you need thinner leather to be able to line your wallets. (An option if you choose not to line them, is to burnish the flesh side with tokonole) Also when/if you start to line your wallets you will either have to glue your folded parts in a curve or you will get a lot of "creases" where the wallets folds. So I would recommend you playing around with small test pieces that you fold to see how it looks. How much it creases depends on the type of leather and the leather weights used, and of course how tight the fold is.

Ps. I'm a self taught hobbyist, and this is based on what i've learned from wallets i've made earlier and have been used for 2-3 years by friends and myself. 

[PhilDimashq]

@Hardrada

Hi and thanks again.

You're not hijacking the thread - far from it. I really appreciate you taking the time to share.

I think my brother's wallet is pretty similar - they also "cheated" using fabric inside the card pockets etc.

(he's not getting that zipper pocket by the way - that's just going too far !)

 

Your photos with the vernier calipers really makes it clear how everything quickly adds up.. our wallets do end up turning into a hamburger (or a brick) pretty quickly !!

I never thought of actually building a test wallet, which is a brilliant bit of advice.

As I'm pretty new to this, I was approaching each project with the view that I should be producing a finished item.

Then I'd adjust my patterns based on the result (the Mark I as I call them) so the next one would be an improvement.

I had been buying smallish pieces and so was a bit "precious" about wasting leather.

However, I bought what I think was a reasonably priced side a couple of weeks ago - €90 for 22 sqr feet.

Now I've plenty to play with so I'll follow your example and make a prototype just to see what's what. I'll use the approach you recommended for the ID pocket too.

Whatever way it turns out, it'll be valuable practice and a learning experience,

In the long run, when I feel I'm getting reasonably good, I would love to try chevre and the nicer leathers such as those from baladassi.

But for the moment, I need to keep building up my skills before I can inflict myself on the high end materials  !!! 

I'm still waiting on the acetate for the pocket (aliexpress - could be a long wait) but when I have the wallet done I'll post it on the forum.

Thanks once again, really appreciate the help and advice,

all the best,

Phil

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by PhilDimashq

[PhilDimashq]

@Danne

Hi Danne,

I've seen some of your work on here and love your attention to detail, really outstanding.

I recently found a tutorial of yours where you showed how you skive  pockets and I've just started trying to use that method.

In particular, I really like how you skive the bottom of the "arms" of the T.. when I saw that I immediately had a lightbulb moment.. think it's the solution for something that's been bugging me.

Last project I finally clicked that the arms of my T should be measured for the SPI I'm using in order to line the irons up all the way.

Big improvement but I could still see the T in the finished item i.e. the bottom of the arms was a visible line between each pocket.

 I'm doing a vertical card wallet this weekend and this time I've made the "arms" about 2 mm longer than I want. Then I've skived that 2 mm on the bottom of the T arms, and I'm overlapping each pocket by 2mm.

It's glueing at the moment but looking promising and I've no visible gaps.

Also this time have added about 2mm all round to my pattern and colour coded it - saw you doing this and really liked the idea.

This should give me a decent trim allowance which had been something I was failing to do.

 

In terms of my current project, I think the consensus is that the materials I have are too thick, but now I've a bit of leather to play with I'll make a prototype anyway.

At the very least, it'll be some much needed sewing practise and will allow me to test the pattern and then make adjustments.

I'll do some test pieces with the lining but I'd say gluing while curved will work, thanks for the tip. 

Given the issue with thickness, I'll burnish one side (great tip, thanks also) and line the visible side.

It probably will be a phone book when finished so the next project could be making bigger pockets for my brother's jeans 

 

In terms of chevre, I've visited the alran website and there's a wide range available (oxford, caprino, chevranil etc.)

I've no idea what I'm looking for so any advice on this would be great.

 

Thanks once again for taking the time to comment and share your knowledge,

All the best,

Phil

 

 

[Danne]

37 minutes ago, PhilDimashq said:

@Danne

Hi Danne,

I've seen some of your work on here and love your attention to detail, really outstanding.

I recently found a tutorial of yours where you showed how you skive  pockets and I've just started trying to use that method.

In particular, I really like how you skive the bottom of the "arms" of the T.. when I saw that I immediately had a lightbulb moment.. think it's the solution for something that's been bugging me.

Last project I finally clicked that the arms of my T should be measured for the SPI I'm using in order to line the irons up all the way.

Big improvement but I could still see the T in the finished item i.e. the bottom of the arms was a visible line between each pocket.

 I'm doing a vertical card wallet this weekend and this time I've made the "arms" about 2 mm longer than I want. Then I've skived that 2 mm on the bottom of the T arms, and I'm overlapping each pocket by 2mm.

It's glueing at the moment but looking promising and I've no visible gaps.

Also this time have added about 2mm all round to my pattern and colour coded it - saw you doing this and really liked the idea.

This should give me a decent trim allowance which had been something I was failing to do.

 

In terms of my current project, I think the consensus is that the materials I have are too thick, but now I've a bit of leather to play with I'll make a prototype anyway.

At the very least, it'll be some much needed sewing practise and will allow me to test the pattern and then make adjustments.

I'll do some test pieces with the lining but I'd say gluing while curved will work, thanks for the tip. 

Given the issue with thickness, I'll burnish one side (great tip, thanks also) and line the visible side.

It probably will be a phone book when finished so the next project could be making bigger pockets for my brother's jeans 

 

In terms of chevre, I've visited the alran website and there's a wide range available (oxford, caprino, chevranil etc.)

I've no idea what I'm looking for so any advice on this would be great.

 

Thanks once again for taking the time to comment and share your knowledge,

All the best,

Phil

 

 

You wrote "this time I've made the "arms" about 2 mm longer than I want. Then I've skived that 2 mm on the bottom of the T arms, and I'm overlapping each pocket by 2mm." I usually overlap the "ears" around 3-4mm, then the overlap get a "flatter" angle. And if I overlap 3mm, I start skiving the pocket ear 4mm from the edge. And before I rough and glue the pocket in place I use a distance piece (Glued to thicker card paper) and shape the overlapping area with a bone folder (pushing it down a little bit) 

The most common used product from Alran is Chevre sully (I don't think it's on the website) and the second most popular is Liege Main.

The weight of Sully is around 1.2-1.3mm and it can be worth buying from somewhere where you can get splitting. https://www.rmleathersupply.com/ have splitting, but since you live in Ireland, maybe you should have a look in Uk (I don't think there are any import duties yet) MarcusGear have Lowick goat, and also Perlinger Noblessa (But Noblessa hides are quite large) If you ask him I think he can split it (At least I know he have splitting service for some products) Or you can use leatherthinning.co.uk.

https://www.marcusgear.co.uk/leather-goods/

Also keep in mind when you are buying directly from tanneries (MarcusGear is not a tannery) I would recommend you to buy a little bit more, most tanneries wont appreciate you buying one skin. I also send you a dm about some alternatives.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Danne