Another Casing Question

[Chris623]

I've read everything I can find and watched all the videos on Youtube about casing I can stand.  Sounds so danged simple.  But I either start stamping before it's dry enough or wait too long.

Here's my take on it.  Submerge leather in a tray for 10 seconds and lay aside.  If I'm not going to get to it until the next day I put it in a Ziplock bag.  Anywho, when I pull it out, I wait until the top of the leather looks as close to dry leather as possible.  (takes a lon-n-n-n-ng time!)  Then I start stamping. 

I don't typically get the nice burnished look that I see on most everyone else's work I see on Youtube.  Sometimes I do, sometimes not.  If I get a nice deep bevel, I find later it is rising back up. (I assume that means the leather is too moist)  If I wait longer to start, I don't seem to be able to get as deep a stamp.  I'm using a 1 pound wooden wood sculpting maul as my hammering tool.  Don't know if that has anything to do with my results.  If I wait long enough for the color to be close to dry leather, I have to keep a spray bottle nearby so I can re-wet it.  I know I'm doing something not quite right, but I just don't know what it is.  Wish one of you more experienced guys could stop by and sit down at my bench and mentor me through the process.

Anything in my description of the process that sounds out of kilter???

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Chris623

[garypl]

I just take a small sponge, dip it in water and make a few passes on the grain side of the leather until it looks damp.  Then let it sit for maybe 15-20 minutes and start.  Normally this works well for me.  As I work and leather seems to be getting too dry, I lightly make a pas with a damp sponge (not soaking wet) and wait a minute or two and then resume.  

Sounds to me like you are just getting the leather too saturated.  Try this on a test piece and see how it works for you.

[Chris623]

Well, like I said, I've tried everything I can think of...............and just wiping with a sponge as you suggest has been one of the methods.  Yours is the exact method I've been using on an Elk carving I'm working on.................and I can't seem to get a good separation between the subject and background because I don't seem to get my bevels deep enough.  Frustrating.

[garypl]

Maybe it’s just crappy leather?  Have you tried other leathers with similar results?

[Chris623]

No.  I'm just starting.  Have only purchased one shoulder so far and only made two sheaths out of it.........plus a few little test pieces out of the scraps.  This shoulder was from Tandy.   As soon as I can gather up some money, I'd like to order a Herman Oak Shoulder.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Chris623

[TargetRockLeather]

Can you stand to watch one more youtube video? Chuck Dorsett over at Weaver just released a video where he compares "wetting" the leather using the method you described to properly casing the leather. He does a sample project using both methods. The properly cased leather turned out quite a bit nicer. I think it's worth a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tf_mcvMLPw

I hope that helps.

Edited November 26, 2020 by TargetRockLeather

[OLESKIVER]

I have one question.....are you making your knife cuts deep enough? I have seen chucks video{ I love all his videos, he is a good teacher} but on the casing? I have tried it once, when I was just starting out, got bored waiting for the leather to dry enough to tool, since then I just use a bowl of water and a dense sponge wet my leather pretty good and let it sit for a bit, then when it is almost back to dry looking I start to tool and I get the same results that chuck got on his casing version. but I use a 10 oz. tandy rawhide mallet that I have used for over 50 yrs., yep same mallet. I rewet my leather with the sponge also.  with a 1pd. maul do you find control an issue? just curious.

 

[Rahere]

I prefer a wadded cloth pad to a sponge, getting the sponge to release the exact amount is a pain. It's easier to not add enough and come back with some more than to over-dampen and have to wait it out.

[Rahere]

I've also got a lighter 8oz maul, allowing me greater nuance in the power I use.

[Chris623]

wet

10 hours ago, TargetRockLeather said:

Can you stand to watch one more youtube video? Chuck Dorsett over at Weaver just released a video where he compares "wetting" the leather using the method you described to properly casing the leather. He does a sample project using both methods. The properly cased leather turned out quite a bit nicer. I think it's worth a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tf_mcvMLPw

I hope that helps.

Indeed it does.  And I agree, and always have, that true casing produces better results than just wiping.  Thanks. 

Watched the video and it seems I'm with Chuck much of the way, but not all.  First off, I didn't know about the liquid soap or mouthwash trick.  I think he said "just a spot".  (that's about as ambiguous as my Grandmother's "pinch of salt" in her recipes!)     Any suggestions there would help.  I've been using the 10-15 second "swim" for my leather, so same there.  The next step is where I've failed miserably.  I've just been waiting until the surface of the leather turns back to near it's original color to start tooling.  Chuck says to place it on a non porous surface and cover with smooth glass for 24 hours.  One thing he didn't cover was how long to wait to start tooling after removing the glass. ??? Then he recommends using Saran Wrap to cover the areas not being tooled.  I thought it interesting he mentioned by casing this way he gets about 2 hours of tooling time.  I've never achieved that.  Question:  So as not to lose the depth of tooling, how would you come back the next day and re-wet to start tooling again?  Just re-wet the area you want to work on with a sponge?

Oleskiver, I "think" my cuts are deep enough, but when I asked for a critique on a small feather I tried, it was suggested I cut a tad deeper. ("tad".  Now isn't that like a "pinch"?)

Rahere, I've been searching on the Internet watching all these videos.  Came across a fellow who was beveling with a 4 oz leather Polypropylene mallet.  (or could have been Polyethylene, not sure.)  He said he'd learned that he could bevel to the depth he wanted with on hefty whack from a 2 pound mallet or "machine-gun" type light taps from a 4 oz mallet and get the same results.  He claimed the benefit was he could light tap for hours and not tire his arm and wrist............unlike wielding the heavier mallet.  I spent some time before turning out the light last night looking for lighter mallets and mauls.  Any thoughts there you might share?

 

 

 

 

[tsunkasapa]

I use a spray bottle. Give it a fairly good wetting initially, and just quick spritzes as needed.

[Dwight]

I do not do a lot of carving and stamping . . . but I have learned this . . . Tandy's shoulders . . . the closer you get to the neck . . . the "harder" it is . . . 

Try . . . just for kicks and giggles . . . some of Tandy's belly leather . . . it is some of the softest leather they have . . . see if you have the same results.  My wager will be "NO"

May God bless,

Dwight

[Chris623]

Hmmmmm.   You're the first person to suggest Belly leather.

[Rahere]

Just "China", likely picked up in a trade fair sometime. My gym's next door to a major exhibition centre.

But at the same time, my eye fell on a classic rawhide mallet about that weight I sometimes use. A simple 1" roll of rawhide, nailed and likely glued, with the middle cut through crosswise to take a wooden handle. Nicely dished ends down the years...

[tsunkasapa]

5 hours ago, Chris623 said:

wet

Indeed it does.  And I agree, and always have, that true casing produces better results than just wiping.  Thanks. 

Watched the video and it seems I'm with Chuck much of the way, but not all.  First off, I didn't know about the liquid soap or mouthwash trick.  I think he said "just a spot".  (that's about as ambiguous as my Grandmother's "pinch of salt" in her recipes!)     Any suggestions there would help.  I've been using the 10-15 second "swim" for my leather, so same there.  The next step is where I've failed miserably.  I've just been waiting until the surface of the leather turns back to near it's original color to start tooling.  Chuck says to place it on a non porous surface and cover with smooth glass for 24 hours.  One thing he didn't cover was how long to wait to start tooling after removing the glass. ??? Then he recommends using Saran Wrap to cover the areas not being tooled.  I thought it interesting he mentioned by casing this way he gets about 2 hours of tooling time.  I've never achieved that.  Question:  So as not to lose the depth of tooling, how would you come back the next day and re-wet to start tooling again?  Just re-wet the area you want to work on with a sponge?

Oleskiver, I "think" my cuts are deep enough, but when I asked for a critique on a small feather I tried, it was suggested I cut a tad deeper. ("tad".  Now isn't that like a "pinch"?)

Rahere, I've been searching on the Internet watching all these videos.  Came across a fellow who was beveling with a 4 oz leather Polypropylene mallet.  (or could have been Polyethylene, not sure.)  He said he'd learned that he could bevel to the depth he wanted with on hefty whack from a 2 pound mallet or "machine-gun" type light taps from a 4 oz mallet and get the same results.  He claimed the benefit was he could light tap for hours and not tire his arm and wrist............unlike wielding the heavier mallet.  I spent some time before turning out the light last night looking for lighter mallets and mauls.  Any thoughts there you might share?

Look on eBay.

Rawhide Mallet - Natural 1.50” - 37-102 | eBay

Rawhide Mallet Jewelry Ring Repair 1 1/2" x 3" Length Head Size 12" Long | eBay

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris623]

Thanks, tsunkasapa.  I just ordered this:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C86H7NQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ordered the 1 pound size.  I think the weight is distributed a lot differently than my maul and think the pivot point will be different, making it feel less heavy.  We'll see.  If it's not what I need, I'll offer it up for sale.

[JSage]

I'm no expert by any stretch, but I can attest that you would be surprised in the difference in the quality of good leather, (read spendy), and many of the cheaper imports. Yes, it's worth the cost. Even Tandy has varying leather quality and pricing to match. I would agree with Dwight, stay away from the shoulder for now. You can buy small sections of quality side leather in differing weights from places like Weaver.  Or even cheaper,  pieces of decent practice leather from supply houses like Tandy in project packs like their coster rounds. I use all three of the discussed methods of casing the leather. The bath, mist spray and damp sponge. Depending on the project or stage Im at in the project I may use all three. Usually at least the bath and damp sponge method. 

[Chris623]

Thanks JSage.  I'm sure that's good advice.  I'm still spending hard-to-acquire money on tools and supplies.  I've got enough of this Tandy Shoulder for several projects.........even some paying ones...........so I see better leather in my future, just not right now.

[Scootch]

This is an old pice of Tandy double shoulder.  It was cased with a damp paper towel.  This amount of burnish is par for the course with this shoulder.

[Scootch]

 This is a Herman Oak belt blank and was cased with a damp paper towel.  This would show burnish if your finger nail drug across it on accident.

[Chris623]

Thanks, Scootch.  Big difference between Tandy's "bargain" leather and the better Herman Oak....................at least to my eye.

[YinTx]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:35 PM, Chris623 said:

Submerge leather in a tray for 10 seconds and lay aside.

I tried that once.  Waited days for it to get back to right.  Ever since, I've not really seen the sense in it.  Only time I ever see a need to let something case in a bag overnight is if the piece has some hard spots in it and I want to make sure the moisture is very even.  But even then I will only put enough moisture to do the job, which a very wet sponge or a misting bottle will do just fine.  Sometimes I use casing solution, sometimes just water.  Always the quality of the leather has a direct impact on the amount of consistent burnish I can achieve.  And yes, some of my older Tandy leather can get a good burnish.   Almost always can get great burnish from Hermann Oak.

YinTx

[TargetRockLeather]

On 11/26/2020 at 3:16 PM, Chris623 said:

Thanks, tsunkasapa.  I just ordered this:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C86H7NQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ordered the 1 pound size.  I think the weight is distributed a lot differently than my maul and think the pivot point will be different, making it feel less heavy.  We'll see.  If it's not what I need, I'll offer it up for sale.

I assume that by now you've received the maul and have had a chance to use it. How do you like it? From the pictures and the description it looks like a nice tool at a very reasonable price. I'm wondering about the texture of the nylon on the head though. It looks like that would get chewed up over time. What's your opinion after having used it a while?

[Chris623]

Well, to be honest, I've not used it.  Got it in and tried it out with a few of my stamps.  Felt nice.  No complaints.  But I wasn't involved in any projects at the time, so it sat on the bench.  Two days later a customer, who wanted a sheath for a knife I'd made for her showed up with a brand new Barry King maul as a gift of "thank you" for the knife.  (even though she paid for it)   Needless to say, I put the BK to use on her sheath and I couldn't be happier.  The one you mentioned was right at a pound and the Barry Kind weighs in at a pound and a half.  Don't know how to explain it, but while the Owden feels nice in the hand, the BK feels as if it's actually part of my hand and arm.  Don't know how to explain it other than that.  They both have the ribbed surface. I'm sure they will both get "chewed" up like you mention..............but I think that gives the maul more grip when it hits the stamp shaft.  My wooden maul used to slip and not stay on the stamp when it hit it.  Both of these mauls do stay on the stamp.  I think the ribbing is responsible for that.