Do I need to use thinner thread?

[sonataworks]

Hi there,

I have been using some leather punches at 4mm spacing on my leather. The holes are 1mm in diameter. They punch through cleanly but I find that it takes a good amount of wiggling to get my needle/thread through.

I have been using Ritza Tiger 0.8mm and John James 002 needles. Do I need to go down to a smaller size, or is that amount of resistance normal?

[YinTx]

If you were to use an awl, there would be the smallest slit in the leather that would try to close up on itself.  Tugging 0.8mm thread through that is pretty snug and takes some effort.  When you are done, you usually don't see the hole.  If I were to knock 1mm round holes in leather to stitch, it would feel like the thread and needle were wallowing around in a cavernous gap to me.  From my perspective, you don't need smaller thread.  But then, I don't stitch with round holes, maybe someone else that does that style can pitch in some experience.

YinTx

[toxo]

You don't say what you're making. When I do Dieselpunkro patterns for handbags etc (typically 2.2/2.4mm leather) I use a 1.5mm punch with 1mm or 1.2mm thread through JJ#2/3 or 4 needles.  Your punching board matters. Too soft with a heavy hand makes for a much larger hole than a firm board with a sharp punch. Your 0.8 thread will go through a #4 needle easily which will make things easier.

[zuludog]

You should be able to hand sew leather easily and smoothly using just your fingers for about 95% of the time - we'll come to the 5% later. The needles should pass through easily, but not so much that they fall out of their own accord; there should be a slight resistance or 'feel' that I have seen described as 'a satisfying drag'

If you're struggling there are three possible explanations - the holes are too small.........the needle & thread combination is too thick........or a combination of the two

0,8mm thread is perhaps a bit thick, but not excessively so, and JJ #002 needles are a good choice; you shouldn't have much of a problem with that, it's quite common. 

You don't say exactly what type of punch you're using, but if it's a small round punch that removes a small plug of leather to make a 1mm dia hole, then that is a bit small, and there is no provision for the hole to expand

A stitching chisel or a saddler's awl, aka diamond awl, makes a slit that's longer than 1mm, and as the name implies, they often have a thicker centre part to the prong or blade which automatically makes a hole as well. Thus when you sew, the slit will open up to give more room for the needle to pass through, especially at the eye where the thread is folded over

I suggest you change the punch for a stitching chisel, or get an awl and push it through the 1mm holes to turn them into a slit

Have a look at the many How To..... videos on YouTube about the Saddle Stitch and Hand Sewing Leather and you'll see how it's done, and how easy it should be; bearing in mind, of course, that the people making these videos are experts. In particular, note that they pass the needles & thread through the leather with little effort. Nigel Armitage, Geordie Leather, Chartermade are good, but there are many others

The 5% exception to this is for backstitching, where the hole or slit already has thread in it. It might go OK, but usually you need to expand the hole with a round awl, aka scratch awl. This doesn't have any sharp edges, so it will temporarily enlarge or expand the hole without cutting the thread or the sides of the hole

After you've done the sewing the slit will close up; that's why you should hammer the stitching when you've finished, it helps this to happen

Of course it helps if the holes are properly lined up, and you can also - rub your fingers with beeswax to give you a better grip.........push the needles with a piece of scrap leather........pull the needles with pliers. Tape the jaws so they don't scratch the needles

Just one more thing - check that you are using JJ 002 needles, and not JJ 2/0 needles, which are bigger and would give you this sort of problem

[sonataworks]

Hi, sorry let me specify.

I am making a notebook cover. The type of punch I am using creates round holes in the leather.

This is similar to what I use.

Although, I am beginning to consider using a chisel instead. The stitching is fairly uneven on the backside.-

[zuludog]

Yes, try a stitching chisel, they are designed to produce a neat stitch

Search YouTube for 'making a leather notebook cover'..............'using stitching chisels'...............'saddle stitch'. You'll see what can be done.

[CastleLeatherWorks]

I would say if you're having trouble pushing your thread and needles thru then your thread might be to thick. as i had the same problem when i first started. i bought ritza thread that was to thick and quickly realized i needed thinner thread. i also realized i dont like ritza thread much and now use waxed linen thread.

Also its all personal preference for the look your going for. some people like heavier thread with bigger stitch spacing. i myself like short stitch length 3/3.38mm and .45mm thread as in my opinion it produces a cleaner higher end look, but i make wallets and smaller goods. if youre making holsters and saddles then you would probably use heavier duty thread.

there is no exact recipe for this . so do what you like for the type of goods youre making.

just my $.02

[Frodo]

16 hours ago, sonataworks said:

Hi, sorry let me specify.

I am making a notebook cover. The type of punch I am using creates round holes in the leather.

This is similar to what I use.

Although, I am beginning to consider using a chisel instead. The stitching is fairly uneven on the backside.-

If you are punching holes and your stitch is uneven on the back side it is due to one or both of the following

1]   punch is not held at a right angle to the leather when struck. 

2]  your stitching technique needs work. when you stitch, you have to stitch each stitch the same way. every time

 

 

[mike02130]

The eye of the needle is oblong and the knot and thread makes it go from. 0.8 mm to 1.6 mm. You are going through a round  1 mm hole.  Do the math.  A square peg won't go through a round hole but a round peg will go through a square hole.  Use angled irons and maybe an awl and you won't have that problem and your stitching will go more smoothly and look much better.  Look at all that clunky Russian work with round holes and compare it to a true slanted saddle stitch.  I use KS Blades' irons which have teeth that are 1.6 and 1.8 mm wide and make a slit.  I use .45 mm thread.  

[johnv474]

Your holes are too small.

For a stitching distance of 4 mm (distance between the centers of the holes), you want approximately a 3 mm diamond-shaped slit.  This can be created with an awl.

The correct thread would then be 0.8 mm, like Tiger thread.