Amazon shoe patcher machine frustrations

[Loudcherokee]

So my shoe patcher came in. After a thorough degreasing and building a makeshift stand for it, I threaded it up and started messing around. The first stitches were ok with the super thin thread that came with the machine, until I tried some thicker leather. 2 layers of 7-8 ounce it does not like. I messed around with the tension up top and finally got it to feed through that 7-8 ounce double stack, and then decided to switch thread types. 

I put in some 207 and threaded it up, and it will stitch, but not well. The bottom of the piece looks a mess and it keeps lifting my leather off the arm when the needle moves up. 

I kept tinkering and eventually got it to thread nicely and make a beautiful stitch, and then went to pull the bobbin out and the whole works came out. Ever since I cannot get the needle to pick up the bobbin thread. It keeps making birds nests underneath the plate and getting wrapped under the bobbin and ive broken 3 needles. When I finally got it it to grab the bobbin thread, I threw in a piece of leather to see if it was stitching correctly and this happened. 

Any ideas? Also, where can I find size 20 or 22 needles for this thing? Biggest i can locate are size 18. 

 

LC

Edited January 11, 2021 by Northmount
copied photo from imgur and pasted here.

[DonInReno]

The FB group on these has a good collection of files that details how to troubleshoot and what needles to use.  The members of that group are pretty enthusiastic about the machine and you’ll find some good help if you are careful about sifting through the people that don’t know what they are doing from those that do.

[CowboyBob]

You need more foot pressure to hold the leather down or try to hold with your hand as all machine won't sew correctly if the material is lifted while your sewing,if it's an old dried out piece of leather you need to oil or wet it to soften it up.

The group on FB is China Leather Shoe Patcher

Edited January 11, 2021 by CowboyBob

[Loudcherokee]

Here is what I'm now dealing with. I set the timing on the cams, arm, and bobbin shuttle, and also slightly enlarged the hole in the plate.

I don't know what happened. It was stitching fine. If you look at the first picture you'll see how well it was stitching in the second picture. 

 

The link is a short video, followed by a picture of the aftermath. 

 https://imgur.com/a/uwHAuBG

LC

Edited January 11, 2021 by Northmount
copied photo from imgur and pasted here.

[kgg]

I looked at your video. I have a couple of comments. When you bring down the needle to pick up the bobbin thread you should have held the end of the top thread and pulled the bobbin thread up through the hole once the needle had cleared the bobbin cover before attempting to bring the needle back down again. Also what size of thread are you using? Is the thread matched to the correct needle size?

kgg

[Loudcherokee]

12 minutes ago, kgg said:

I looked at your video. I have a couple of comments. When you bring down the needle to pick up the bobbin thread you should have held the end of the top thread and pulled the bobbin thread up through the hole once the needle had cleared the bobbin cover before attempting to bring the needle back down again. Also what size of thread are you using? Is the thread matched to the correct needle size?

kgg

That thread is 207 with a #18 needle that came with the machine. Ive ordered some 21 and 22 size needles but they aren't here yet. 

I've noticed that the thread is going up under the bobbin shuttle, the part with the gear on the bottom, occasionally. Its also wrapping around the bobbin shuttle itself. It appears that the claw is at times piercing the thread rather than grabbing it like it is supposed to. 

LC

[Northmount]

@Loudcherokee I have copied your photos into your posts.  Please do not use 3rd party photo hosting services for photos.  It's okay for videos as there is no way to get them into LW considering their size.

3rd party hosted photos disappear when the host changes policies, goes out of business, or otherwise.  They also disappear when the originator changes their location, deletes them, etc.  When this happens, the integrity of the thread is lost for all the members that come along later.  You will find lots of examples of this if you browse other postings here.  You can reduce file sizes if necessary to meet the size requirements.  These files were small enough that there was no problem uploading to LW.

19 minutes ago, Loudcherokee said:

When you bring down the needle to pick up the bobbin thread you should have held the end of the top thread and pulled the bobbin thread up through the hole once the needle had cleared the bobbin cover before attempting to bring the needle back down again.

@Loudcherokee  Did you notice kgg's comment?  If not you are in for a lot more trouble.

[Loudcherokee]

8 minutes ago, Northmount said:

@Loudcherokee I have copied your photos into your posts.  Please do not use 3rd party photo hosting services for photos.  It's okay for videos as there is no way to get them into LW considering their size.

3rd party hosted photos disappear when the host changes policies, goes out of business, or otherwise.  They also disappear when the originator changes their location, deletes them, etc.  When this happens, the integrity of the thread is lost for all the members that come along later.  You will find lots of examples of this if you browse other postings here.  You can reduce file sizes if necessary to meet the size requirements.  These files were small enough that there was no problem uploading to LW.

@Loudcherokee  Did you notice kgg's comment?  If not you are in for a lot more trouble.

I did see that and haven't gotten back to the machine to try it again. 

As for the images, when I tried posting those, I kept getting a warning of 1.46mb max file size. The pics were taken from my phone so I'm not sure how to reduce the size. Thats why I used the hosting site. I'd rather not use it but I had to.

Maybe the 1.46mb limit is because I'm new? 

LC

Edited January 11, 2021 by Loudcherokee

[Northmount]

8 minutes ago, Loudcherokee said:

Maybe the 1.46mb limit is because I'm new? 

That's the limit!  Kind of small. 

There are lots of suggestions as to how you can reduce file sizes here.  800x600 pixels is adequate for most.  1024x768 is a bit better.  Either of these will allow you to post many photos.  It is also a favour to users on the fringes of good internet access.  They don't have to wait an hour or so for a couple large photos to download before they can view the post.  Please refer to this thread to find several pieces of software or web based utilities to help you.

 

 

[Loudcherokee]

I found a way to resize in my phone. Lets see if this works. 

Hey it worked! The original image was 2.4mb. It resized to a little over 500kb. 

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

LC

[Loudcherokee]

Well I followed kggs suggestion, and I got it stitching but now it won't lock the stitch and it breaks about the 5th stitch and both threads pull out of the leather with ease. 

LC

[kgg]

A couple additional ideas. Do you have the long groove on the side the thread enters the needle? How full is your bobbin? I like to keep all my bobbins in the 80 percent range.

I would step back and do a process of elimination. Check thread path, correct needle size (V207 size 23 /24 needle), needle installed all the way, positioned correctly and do the bobbin drop test to see if tension is correct for the thread size (to little and bobbin falls to floor , to tight the bobbin will not allow thread to come off bobbin). Try using some V69 thread on the top and bobbin just to see if it would pickup and lock the stitches properly. Then re-thread the top with V207 and see that works. If that works the problem is in the bobbin. There may not be enough head space in the bobbin area to clear V207 properly, incorrect tension in the bobbin tension spring, bobbin hook assembly incorrectly thread. Large threads need to be threaded through the holes farthest away from the hook and under the spring also the bobbin when you pull on the thread rotates counter clock wise.

Personally I don't know how you got V207 thread through the eye of needle if it was the one that came with the machine. I would suggest about thinking of changing the size of the needle to a standard 135x16 needle, which is a simple process and needles are easy to find.

kgg

[Loudcherokee]

49 minutes ago, kgg said:

A couple additional ideas. Do you have the long groove on the side the thread enters the needle? How full is your bobbin? I like to keep all my bobbins in the 80 percent range.

I would step back and do a process of elimination. Check thread path, correct needle size (V207 size 23 /24 needle), needle installed all the way, positioned correctly and do the bobbin drop test to see if tension is correct for the thread size (to little and bobbin falls to floor , to tight the bobbin will not allow thread to come off bobbin). Try using some V69 thread on the top and bobbin just to see if it would pickup and lock the stitches properly. Then re-thread the top with V207 and see that works. If that works the problem is in the bobbin. There may not be enough head space in the bobbin area to clear V207 properly, incorrect tension in the bobbin tension spring, bobbin hook assembly incorrectly thread. Large threads need to be threaded through the holes farthest away from the hook and under the spring also the bobbin when you pull on the thread rotates counter clock wise.

Personally I don't know how you got V207 thread through the eye of needle if it was the one that came with the machine. I would suggest about thinking of changing the size of the needle to a standard 135x16 needle, which is a simple process and needles are easy to find.

kgg

I've got some more thread and needles on the way, some 138 I think? And some size 21 and 22 needles. The needle is situated with the channel facing the left. 

Can you explain the drop test for the bobbin? Am I holding the thread and letting the bobbin drop? 

What do you mean by changing the size of the needle? 

LC

[kgg]

7 minutes ago, Loudcherokee said:

I've got some more thread and needles on the way, some 138 I think? And some size 21 and 22 needles.

The ones that come with the machine I think are HAx1 needles which can be purchased up to size 22. Size 22 needles are good for V138 max. This will depend on how thick and tough the leather is. If you change the needle to a standard industrial 135x16 you will get better needles and a better selection of sizes.

 

17 minutes ago, Loudcherokee said:

The needle is situated with the channel facing the left. 

Does that mean the long groove is on the left. Which would be correct.

 

18 minutes ago, Loudcherokee said:

Can you explain the drop test for the bobbin? Am I holding the thread and letting the bobbin drop? 

When you have the bobbin threaded properly in the hook assembly. 1. As you pull on the thread with the bobbin facing you it should rotate the bobbin counter clockwise. 2. Hold the end of the thread coming out of the assembly with one hand and with the whole threaded assembly rested in the pam of the other hand. Try and lift the assembly off your pam. If thread just pulls out freely and the assembly doesn't lift off your hand tighten the tension spring screw in by 1/8 of a turn. Try again until you can lift the assembly off your hand and suspend it. The thread should unwind from the bobbin slightly if you give it a gentle, gentle upward jerk.

What you are going to find is these little machines can do a nice stitch but you are going to spend a lot of time tinkering with it to get to that stage. Once you figure what size of thread / needle size is best for your needs and setup, leave it. I think they are fun little machines and a great way to get started on a budget in the one arm bandit machines. Funny thing through is I still have mine but sold the Consew 223 cylinder (not heavy enough, small bobbin) and Pfaff 1245 (too finicky) is for sale.

Best of luck,

kgg

[Loudcherokee]

I went back to the super thin thread that came with the machine. It is operating correctly now. When the new thread and needles get here, I will attempt it again. This stuff is SUPER thin. 

I also see that I need to smooth out my presser foot some more. I filed down the teeth, then hit it on the belt sander and it feels smooth, but its still marking up this pull up leather. 

I do need to learn to stitch apparently. When removing the item, I snip the threads, and when pulling the threads taught on the piece to snip close they just pull out. 

I know I need go back stitch, and I've tried and still get a little pull out, but not as much as if I don't back stitch at all. Let me see if I'm doing this right. 

I make 3 full stitches, and while the foot is up, I rotate the drum 18p degrees, and go back over those three stitches, then again when the foot is up, I rotate the drum and stitch back over those 3 original stitches a 3rd time. I end my stitch line like this as well. Do I have that right? 

LC

[Loudcherokee]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

The ones that come with the machine I think are HAx1 needles which can be purchased up to size 22. Size 22 needles are good for V138 max. This will depend on how thick and tough the leather is. If you change the needle to a standard industrial 135x16 you will get better needles and a better selection of sizes.

 

Best of luck,

kgg

Is this the modification I see mentioned where you have to file the needle bar? Or is that type of needle just a drop in? 

LC

[kgg]

59 minutes ago, Loudcherokee said:

Is this the modification I see mentioned where you have to file the needle bar?

It is basically a straight drop in. All you have to do is adjust the needle bar up a small amount by loosening the screw at the top of the needle bar. Move the needle bar clamp up by the same amount as the difference in length the new 135x 16 are longer. If I remember it is just under 1/4" that you move the bar up.

Note also the original needles have a flat side at the top of the needle where as the 135x16 have a completely round shank. So when you put it in make sure you line it up properly.

1 hour ago, Loudcherokee said:

I know I need go back stitch, and I've tried and still get a little pull out, but not as much as if I don't back stitch at all.

I think you need more tension on your top thread to haul the bobbin thread further into the leather.

1 hour ago, Loudcherokee said:

I make 3 full stitches, and while the foot is up, I rotate the drum 18p degrees, and go back over those three stitches, then again when the foot is up, I rotate the drum and stitch back over those 3 original stitches a 3rd time. I end my stitch line like this as well. Do I have that right? 

Yes

1 hour ago, Loudcherokee said:

I filed down the teeth, then hit it on the belt sander and it feels smooth, but its still marking up this pull up leather. 

Adjust the downward pressure on your pressor foot. It is adjusted by loosening the nut on the funny bolt with the two springs attached that is closest to the head (seated in the frame). The other normal looking bolt is for adjusting the stitch length. If your pressor foot is leaving marks loosen the nut, if it is not moving the leather along tighten the nut in to haul the springs down.

kgg

[Loudcherokee]

43 minutes ago, kgg said:

It is basically a straight drop in. All you have to do is adjust the needle bar up a small amount by loosening the screw at the top of the needle bar. Move the needle bar clamp up by the same amount as the difference in length the new 135x 16 are longer. If I remember it is just under 1/4" that you move the bar up.

Note also the original needles have a flat side at the top of the needle where as the 135x16 have a completely round shank. So when you put it in make sure you line it up properly.

I think you need more tension on your top thread to haul the bobbin thread further into the leather.

Yes

Adjust the downward pressure on your pressor foot. It is adjusted by loosening the nut on the funny bolt with the two springs attached that is closest to the head (seated in the frame). The other normal looking bolt is for adjusting the stitch length. If your pressor foot is leaving marks loosen the nut, if it is not moving the leather along tighten the nut in to haul the springs down.

kgg

Thank you for that info. I will look into those needles for sure. 

In regards to the foot, what should I do if its leaving marks but isn't moving the leather? I think I may have smoothed the teeth out too much, but its still leaving marks. 

LC

[kgg]

6 hours ago, Loudcherokee said:

what should I do if its leaving marks but isn't moving the leather? I think I may have smoothed the teeth out too much, but its still leaving marks. 

Maybe glue a piece of rubber or something to the bottom of the pressor foot add to add a little grip???

kgg

[shoepatcher]

14 hours ago, Loudcherokee said:

That thread is 207 with a #18 needle that came with the machine. Ive ordered some 21 and 22 size needles but they aren't here yet. 

I've noticed that the thread is going up under the bobbin shuttle, the part with the gear on the bottom, occasionally. Its also wrapping around the bobbin shuttle itself. It appears that the claw is at times piercing the thread rather than grabbing it like it is supposed to. 

LC

Needle way too small for that size of thread.  You need a 24 needle to sew #207.  These machines come in pretty rough and you need to go thru the thread path to check for burrs and other thins.  Hook may be actually to sharp on the end. 

[Loudcherokee]

2 hours ago, kgg said:

Maybe glue a piece of rubber or something to the bottom of the pressor foot add to add a little grip???

kgg

I'll check into that. Im sure ive got something laying around that will work. Ive read of people using plasti-dip on the foot as well. 

1 hour ago, shoepatcher said:

Needle way too small for that size of thread.  You need a 24 needle to sew #207.  These machines come in pretty rough and you need to go thru the thread path to check for burrs and other thins.  Hook may be actually to sharp on the end. 

I just ordered some size 24 needles in the recommended 135x16 size. Looking forward to hopefully getting this thing running correctly. I have removed several burrs from the machine already, but haven't given any special attention to the thread path. The bobbin hook is quite sharp. Enough to produce an "ouch" if I grab it incorrectly. 

So if I get this thing up and running, realizing the bobbin may not hold enough thread to stitch a whole belt, what would be the best way to refill the bobbin mid-stitch? Back stitch a few stitches then keep going? Or will that cause a jumbled mess of thread? Or what about using a smaller size thread in the bobbin, say a 138 and the 207 up top? 

LC

[Wizcrafts]

Your machine, just like the small bobbin Singer and Adler patchers, was not built to sew with #207 thread. You can force it to, but it won't be a good result. I would seriously limit it to #138 on top with #92 in the bobbin.

[dikman]

Wiz beat me to it. The way that machine works the thread is dragged under and around the bobbin during the stitch cycle and I doubt there is sufficient clearance within the bobbin assembly for thread that thick.

[Loudcherokee]

5 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Your machine, just like the small bobbin Singer and Adler patchers, was not built to sew with #207 thread. You can force it to, but it won't be a good result. I would seriously limit it to #138 on top with #92 in the bobbin.

 

13 minutes ago, dikman said:

Wiz beat me to it. The way that machine works the thread is dragged under and around the bobbin during the stitch cycle and I doubt there is sufficient clearance within the bobbin assembly for thread that thick.

Well I'll still give it the good ole college try when the bigger needles get here. It made that one row of stitching with the 207 beautifully. If it doesn't work, I will move on to the 138. 

Is 138 up top and 92 in the bobbin strong enough for a double layer 7-8 ounce belt meant for carrying a gun edc? If not I guess I'm stuck saddle stitching a 42" belt. 

Can ya'll recommend an affordable machine capable of stitching 207 in 16 ounces of leather that is under the $500 mark? I cant justify $2k on a machine that is right now just a hobby. 

LC

[kgg]

51 minutes ago, Loudcherokee said:

Can ya'll recommend an affordable machine capable of stitching 207 in 16 ounces of leather that is under the $500 mark? I cant justify $2k on a machine that is right now just a hobby. 

I don't think you are going to find any used machines in the under $500 range capable of doing what you want.

kgg