4 inch or smaller head knife around $150 or less? Is a "French" knife a good alternative?

[Brigg]

I am looking for a smaller head knife that is good quality. I don't want to spend more than $150 as I am new to this style of knife. I can find custom ones that are $200 +. I've looked at Abbey England, RM Leather, Osbourne and I have not found one. There is the Osbourne 71 which is 4.5" but is sounds like this is a low quality knife that needs pretty serious sharpening from new.  If anyone has any recommendations please let me know.

If I need to spend more I can, I've never used or sharpened this style of knife before so I am hesitant to spend too much.

Would a French knife be a good alternative?

Image from Abbey England

[fredk]

Check out this seller

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handmade-High-Carbon-Steel-Round-Head-Leather-Cutter-Skiving-Tool-Sheath-QC20/183974299306?hash=item2ad5b906aa:g:6oMAAOSwzRpe4n7c

Mixed, but mainly positive, reviews on the quality and sharpness as received. But all knives should be sharpened after arrival

[jcuk]

This maybe a better choice for you it will do anything a round knife can do, less of a learning curve in use and sharpening.

https://www.abbeyengland.com/barnsley-single-head-knife-552.html

They also have these cant say how good or bad they are, the blade does not look over big.

https://www.abbeyengland.com/abbey-round-knife-10222.html

Tempted by this myself but cant justify it to the other half i think, but this looks a good one they don't come up that often as good as this, yes it maybe on the large side for you now but you will get use to it and not regret it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-half-moon-cutter-cobblers-saddlers-leather-working-tool-by-Dixon/164662949917?hash=item2656ad381d:g:oVMAAOSwxTxgDAQo

Hope this helps

JCUK 

[Brigg]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

Check out this seller

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handmade-High-Carbon-Steel-Round-Head-Leather-Cutter-Skiving-Tool-Sheath-QC20/183974299306?hash=item2ad5b906aa:g:6oMAAOSwzRpe4n7c

Mixed, but mainly positive, reviews on the quality and sharpness as received. But all knives should be sharpened after arrival

Thank you for the recommendation. Somethings that stand out to me about these knives is 1) the quality control sticker and 2) the lack of a maker's mark...they might be okay but they seems like a cheap Chinese knives.

1 hour ago, jcuk said:

This maybe a better choice for you it will do anything a round knife can do, less of a learning curve in use and sharpening.

https://www.abbeyengland.com/barnsley-single-head-knife-552.html

They also have these cant say how good or bad they are, the blade does not look over big.

https://www.abbeyengland.com/abbey-round-knife-10222.html

Tempted by this myself but cant justify it to the other half i think, but this looks a good one they don't come up that often as good as this, yes it maybe on the large side for you now but you will get use to it and not regret it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-half-moon-cutter-cobblers-saddlers-leather-working-tool-by-Dixon/164662949917?hash=item2656ad381d:g:oVMAAOSwxTxgDAQo

Hope this helps

JCUK 

Thank you for the recommendation. I just ordered the Osbourne 73 Lead knife which I think is their equivalent of the Barnsley one as it is cheaper with shipping...can't say if the Barnley would be better or worse as they both look crude but they are priced accordingly.

The Dixon one is really big.

If anyone else has recommendations for a 4" or smaller round/head knife I would still be curious.

[battlemunky]

Leatherwranglers has a round knife that I ordered about 6-7 mos ago that should be arriving any day. It is $195 though but its supposed to be excellent. It's called The PERK.

https://leatherwranglers.com/shop/ols/products/performance-essentials-round-knife

[fredk]

7 minutes ago, Brigg said:

Thank you for the recommendation. Somethings that stand out to me about these knives is 1) the quality control sticker and 2) the lack of a maker's mark...they might be okay but they seems like a cheap Chinese knives.

A. the maker is in England. As yet that is not a colony of China

b. the makers mark is embedded in the handle

c. TRY READING THE LISTING FOR ONCE- EEJIT!!

[Brigg]

31 minutes ago, battlemunky said:

Leatherwranglers has a round knife that I ordered about 6-7 mos ago that should be arriving any day. It is $195 though but its supposed to be excellent. It's called The PERK.

https://leatherwranglers.com/shop/ols/products/performance-essentials-round-knife

That looks like a nice knife. I will add it to my list of knives to consider if I decide I like that style of knife.

27 minutes ago, fredk said:

A. the maker is in England. As yet that is not a colony of China

b. the makers mark is embedded in the handle

c. TRY READING THE LISTING FOR ONCE- EEJIT!!

No where on the listing does it say where the knives are made...that is usually a pride point if they made in the place the business is located. I've never seen a custom knife maker use quality control stickers. Is the makers mark the pin decoration? Normally knife makers will sign the blade as that is the essential part of the tool. Handles don't always last the life of the knife. I know Bob Kramer uses that sort of decoration but he always signs the actual blade of the knife as far as I know.

[Retswerb]

17 minutes ago, Brigg said:

No where on the listing does it say where the knives are made...that is usually a pride point if they made in the place the business is located. I've never seen a custom knife maker use quality control stickers. Is the makers mark the pin decoration? Normally knife makers will sign the blade as that is the essential part of the tool. Handles don't always last the life of the knife. I know Bob Kramer uses that sort of decoration but he always signs the actual blade of the knife as far as I know.

 

I’m with @Brigg on this one, @fredk. The seller talks plenty about shipping from the UK, but manufacture isn’t mentioned. Then I found the statement on their website that “Blades and Blanks operates in the major regions of the world such as, South Asia, Middle East ,Australia,North America and Europe and, making our fine collection at the doorstep of the natives.  “ ( https://jayger.co.uk/about-us/ ) I have no idea what they consider the ‘doorstep of the natives’ but I doubt it’s their UK office.

EDIT: Might still be a fine knife, I just don’t see reason to share your confidence based on what’s in the listing. Do you have personal experience with them?

Edited January 24, 2021 by Retswerb

[fredk]

39 minutes ago, Retswerb said:

 

I’m with @Brigg on this one, @fredk. The seller talks plenty about shipping from the UK, but manufacture isn’t mentioned.

Its not???? You too need to read

quote from one of their listings - see the bit that says 'All items Made by us' ????

Fully functional, easy to store & good addition in your tools. Great for giving away as a gift.Each of our Damascus skiving Tool made by professionals according to the need for everyday use and they are unique in their own way.

Buy with confidence.

 

:::::All Items Made by us::::

 

Feel Free to contact us for all your Inquires, Questions and Feedback.
We will be happy to help you to design tools according to your need and taste. Thank You

 

I've not bought from them but I have been in contact with them

Just  forget it all.

I shall no longer be posting any advice or help on this website. Its a bluddy waste of my time

 

PS. the 'quality control sticker' is actually the sellers ebay listing identifier. If you bother to read or contact the seller you'd find this out and not jump to stupid unfounded assumptions

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by fredk

[tsunkasapa]

1 hour ago, Brigg said:

Thank you for the recommendation. Somethings that stand out to me about these knives is 1) the quality control sticker and 2) the lack of a maker's mark...they might be okay but they seems like a cheap Chinese knives.

Thank you for the recommendation. I just ordered the Osbourne 73 Lead knife which I think is their equivalent of the Barnsley one as it is cheaper with shipping...can't say if the Barnley would be better or worse as they both look crude but they are priced accordingly.

The Dixon one is really big.

If anyone else has recommendations for a 4" or smaller round/head knife I would still be curious.

Personally, I doubt you will be happy with this knife, I may be wrong. But based on the picture it isn't sharpened to do what a head/round knife does.

[Brigg]

9 minutes ago, fredk said:

Its not???? You too need to read

quote from one of their listings - see the bit that says 'All items Made by us' ????

Fully functional, easy to store & good addition in your tools. Great for giving away as a gift.Each of our Damascus skiving Tool made by professionals according to the need for everyday use and they are unique in their own way.

Buy with confidence.

 

:::::All Items Made by us::::

 

Feel Free to contact us for all your Inquires, Questions and Feedback.
We will be happy to help you to design tools according to your need and taste. Thank You

 

I've not bought from them but I have been in contact with them

Just  forget it all.

I shall no longer be posting any advice or help on this website. Its a bluddy waste of my time

 

PS. the 'quality control sticker' is actually the sellers ebay listing identifier. If you bother to read or contact the seller you'd find this out and not jump to stupid unfounded assumptions

 

I think you are right about the sticker. My mistake. "All items made by us" doesn't mean anything. A Mercedes doesn't have to be made in Germany to be made by Mercedes Benz. These knives could be made in the U.K. but there is no information about the country of origin.
 

Anyways no need to make ad hominem attacks. I didn't mean to offend you.

4 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

Personally, I doubt you will be happy with this knife, I may be wrong. But based on the picture it isn't sharpened to do what a head/round knife does.

I am not sure how useful the picture is but you could be right. Osbourne says it is used by stained glass and leather workers.

[Retswerb]

Take a deep breath, @fredk. Your presence and advice on this forum are valuable and respected. Go for a walk and come back tomorrow, no one here is attacking you.

[zuludog]

Have a look at www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk then knives, then saddlery. I have their head knife - as a traditional maker they only give you a basic cutting edge, to keep the cost down, and you are expected to do the final sharpening and polishing yourself, but once you get there it is excellent. Search YouTube for how to sharpen a round knife/head knife. They make other leatherworking tools as well

They are made in Sheffield, which is a major steel and tool manufacturing city in England. Somewhere on the Net I saw a series of photographs of their factory showing, among other things, head knives being made, but that was a while ago and I can't give you a reference

You could also Search around on  Google and Etsy. For example 'Etsy - round knife'; ' Etsy - head knife' and so on. While you're at it, you could Search for 'Etsy - Japanese leather knife'. With these categories you will see a variety of shapes and sizes besides the standard ones.......shipping from Etsy suppliers to USA might be cheaper than from UK

Have a look at videos by JH Leather, she uses a head knife for most of her work

Everything is made to a price. For leatherworking knives, awls and edge bevelers it takes time, care, and work to get an absolutely sharp and perfect cutting edge, and therefore costs more. So as I mentioned, the makers only give you a basic finish and you do the final stage yourself. You only get a sharp out of the box tool and a nice shiny look from the most expensive and exotic top end makes

You can improve things by sharpening a new knife yourself, sanding and treating the handle, and so on. In Britain we call this process 'fettling' Strictly speaking fettling means cleaning and grinding rough castings, but it has come to mean any sort of improvement or repair work

Search YouTube for 'how to sharpen a round knife' and there are several videos

Edited January 25, 2021 by zuludog

[zuludog]

FREDK Please will you reconsider your decision. I, for one, appreciate your help and advice, and I would like to do so well into the future

Regards Geoff, aka Zuludog

[garypl]

I have a couple of knives from Terry Moore in Vernon, Tx - you can contact him via Facebook.  
 

[MikeRock]

Well, if you are on right now, there is a legitimate CS Osborne, Newark, head knife right  now......like 30  minutes left...

God bless

C S OSBORNE & CO HALF-MOON CUTTING OUT KNIFE COBBLER SHOEMAKER LEATHER CRAFT

Edited January 25, 2021 by MikeRock
forgot link

[Hardrada]

This is what I got from Abbey:

 

It was only £ 36 about a year ago. Perfectly within your range.

https://www.abbeyengland.com/solingen-round-knife-329-8376.html

Edited January 25, 2021 by Hardrada

[Webicons]

What style of knife do you usually use?  What are you looking to achieve by switching to the head knife.  

I've tried several head knives but always returned to my Japanese knives.  Maybe if I had started off with the head knives then I would have invested more time into them.  Unless they are ready to use out of the box, the initial sharpening on a head knife is a bitch.  Maintenance not too bad though. 

[Brigg]

3 hours ago, garypl said:

I have a couple of knives from Terry Moore in Vernon, Tx - you can contact him via Facebook. 

These look perfect. I will give him a call tomorrow.

1 hour ago, Hardrada said:

This is what I got from Abbey:

It was only £ 36 about a year ago. Perfectly within your range.

https://www.abbeyengland.com/solingen-round-knife-329-8376.html

This was the knife I originally wanted but the size seems a bit big for me. How do you like yours?

3 hours ago, MikeRock said:

Well, if you are on right now, there is a legitimate CS Osborne, Newark, head knife right  now......like 30  minutes left...

God bless

I missed it...though still a bit big at 4.75"

4 hours ago, zuludog said:

Have a look at www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk then knives, then saddlery. I have their head knife - as a traditional maker they only give you a basic cutting edge, to keep the cost down, and you are expected to do the final sharpening and polishing yourself, but once you get there it is excellent. Search YouTube for how to sharpen a round knife/head knife. They make other leatherworking tools as well

They are made in Sheffield, which is a major steel and tool manufacturing city in England. Somewhere on the Net I saw a series of photographs of their factory showing, among other things, head knives being made, but that was a while ago and I can't give you a reference

You could also Search around on  Google and Etsy. For example 'Etsy - round knife'; ' Etsy - head knife' and so on. While you're at it, you could Search for 'Etsy - Japanese leather knife'. With these categories you will see a variety of shapes and sizes besides the standard ones.......shipping from Etsy suppliers to USA might be cheaper than from UK

Have a look at videos by JH Leather, she uses a head knife for most of her work

Everything is made to a price. For leatherworking knives, awls and edge bevelers it takes time, care, and work to get an absolutely sharp and perfect cutting edge, and therefore costs more. So as I mentioned, the makers only give you a basic finish and you do the final stage yourself. You only get a sharp out of the box tool and a nice shiny look from the most expensive and exotic top end makes

You can improve things by sharpening a new knife yourself, sanding and treating the handle, and so on. In Britain we call this process 'fettling' Strictly speaking fettling means cleaning and grinding rough castings, but it has come to mean any sort of improvement or repair work

Search YouTube for 'how to sharpen a round knife' and there are several videos

The Barnsley single point head knife does seem like a good option though double point one is big.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Brigg

[Brigg]

41 minutes ago, Webicons said:

What style of knife do you usually use?  What are you looking to achieve by switching to the head knife.  

I've tried several head knives but always returned to my Japanese knives.  Maybe if I had started off with the head knives then I would have invested more time into them.  Unless they are ready to use out of the box, the initial sharpening on a head knife is a bitch.  Maintenance not too bad though. 

I am just trying to figure out what knives work best for me. I have a single bevel Japanese kiridashi knife and have been using the black carbon Olfa snap off blades. I am curious about the round shape as it is supposed to be good cutting curves.

[Hardrada]

49 minutes ago, Brigg said:

This was the knife I originally wanted but the size seems a bit big for me. How do you like yours?

It's indeed not on the pocket size province:

 

But my hands are towards the large size (not too large, though, and I have lean fingers). I find it OK now that I'm used to it, but at times it doesn seem a bit large.

RML has a Vergez Blanchard, smaller and within your range: https://www.rmleathersupply.com/collections/skiving-cutting-knives/products/vergez-blanchard-head-round-knife-120mm?variant=706864527

Yeah, call me a shameless enabler, but I do think you should definitely have a half-moon knife in your toolbox. It's not a waste even if you end up using it only for certain tasks. Well used, though, and you can cut straight lines and curves, even tight ones, with ease, as well as skive, glass edges, &c. If you buy a quality knife, it'll last you a lifetime, so again, I see no waste of money there but a savvy investment.

The key with these knives is that they must be kept sharp, always. So, make sure you have your sharpening stones, strop, and green compound.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Hardrada

[Hardrada]

BTW, I don't think the French knife would profit you much, certainly not as much as the half-moon one. I've never handled a French knife but by the looks of it I can infer it uses different techniques. Cutting curves with the half-moon is quite easy, but I don't see how I could use the same technique with the French one.

See here:

 

 

[thunter9]

first are you from the states? 

[zuludog]

Have a look at this video - How to sharpen your head knife for leatherwork by JH Leather. I think her knife is an old Dixons model which is no longer made, but it is very similar to the Osborne #73. Watch her other videos and you'll see that she does well enough with it

Have a look at the Osborne  # 1020 Combination Knife

Search Etsy for head/round/Japanese leather knives, there are various shapes and sizes. Those by WLM Workshop and Forged Steel Tools might suit you

It's interesting to see that neither Ian Atkinson nor Nigel Armitage appear to use a round/head knife much, if at all.

Have a look at a Clicker Knife, with the interchangeable straight and hooked blades

Depending on how I feel and the work i'm doing, I use - a Japanese leather knife, with the asymmetric blade; a Stanley/Utility/Box Cutter Knife with an extra sharpened & polished blade; and a Barnsley Head Knife

Edited January 25, 2021 by zuludog

[jcuk]

17 hours ago, Brigg said:

There is the Osbourne 71 which is 4.5" but is sounds like this is a low quality knife that needs pretty serious sharpening from new. 

Curious what makes you think this knife will be of more quality. 

Also have a look at this site there is only one Round Knife at the moment it is unmarked and 5'' contact Bruce ask him about it, don't think it would be on his site if he did not rate it.  Many here will endorse his site and the quality of the tools for sale it will be ready to go out of the box and it might be an unmarked gem, he often has some good old ones for sale. My first single Head Knife was unmarked and is a little gem still have it some 25 plus years cost £13

https://brucejohnsonleather.com

JCUK