What is it? Buscadero holster or not?

[Dave Richardson]

Is the first picture a buscadero because of the sharp downward angle at the loop ?  In the pattern pack of the second picture the belt is straight, no downward angle, what would you call this style ?

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Northmount
Changed title to reflect post content

[JamesRiley]

I don't pretend to be an expert on  nomenclature, but it was my understanding that" buscadero" wasn't so much about angles as it was 1.  the bottom edge of the belt has a dip, or extension below parallel, and 2. that extension had a slot in it from which the holster would hang.  Whereas a non-buscadero would have the holster over the whole belt. 

So, as I understand it, yes, that first picture shows a buscadero no matter the angle of the slot.

It was also my understanding the buscadero is a Hollywood invention that never really existed in the 19th Century.

I stand by to be corrected.

[Dwight]

JamesRiley has it all correct from my understanding as well.

Plus . . . I personally would never make one like that.  Without the proper curvature of the belt . . . lots of the "buttless cowboys" would never be able to keep the gun belt from sliding to their knees every time they coughed or sneezed.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited March 25, 2021 by Dwight

[Dave Richardson]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

JamesRiley has it all correct from my understanding as well.

Plus . . . I personally would never make one like that.  Without the proper curvature of the belt . . . lots of the "buttless cowboys" would never be able to keep the gun belt from sliding to their knees every time they coughed or sneezed.

May God bless,

Dwight

You would never make one like what ?

[Dave Richardson]

2 hours ago, JamesRiley said:

I don't pretend to be an expert on  nomenclature, but it was my understanding that" buscadero" wasn't so much about angles as it was 1.  the bottom edge of the belt has a dip, or extension below parallel, and 2. that extension had a slot in it from which the holster would hang.  Whereas a non-buscadero would have the holster over the whole belt. 

So, as I understand it, yes, that first picture shows a buscadero no matter the angle of the slot.

It was also my understanding the buscadero is a Hollywood invention that never really existed in the 19th Century.

I stand by to be corrected.

My description of sharp downward angle was to describe the " dip in the belt below parallel " . The tandy pattern has no dip in the belt but the holster hangs in a slot below parallel, so does that make it a buscadero as well ?

Edited March 25, 2021 by Dave Richardson

[Dwight]

IT IS a buscadero if it does one thing . . . the holster hangs from a loop on the bottom of the cartridge belt. 

That is the only requirement to turn a normal holster into a buscadero.

My comment comes from the teaching of John Bianchi . . . (super master holster maker) . . . who stressed that any gun belt that was cut so that most or all of it was pretty much one straight piece . . . you just couldn't get it to hang on a buttless cowboy . . . an age related thing that happens to a lot of men.  

Their butt does not disappear . . . it just moves around front above the waist line . . . leaving bones and cheek skin . . . needing a curved belt to keep up the three pounds of shooting steel and 2 or three pounds of ammo from falling to their ankles every time they cough or sneeze.

May God bless,

Dwight

[JamesRiley]

It's difficult for me to use words to explain my meaning.  Compare: All of the belts in the picture that I will attach to this this post do *not* have any dip at all.  The bottom edge of each belt runs parallel to the top edge for the entire length of the belt.  And there is no slot in the belts.  The holster goes over the entire belt.  This is the traditional way gun belts were used in the 19th Century. 

However, both of the belts in your pics in the original post have a dip in the belt below parallel.  In other words, the bottom edge of the belt runs parallel to the top edge of the belt for most of the length, but there is a spot where the leather increases in width below the parallel line, and then returns back up to parallel.  In that dip, on both  belts, you  find a slot through which the holster is connected to the belt.  That is called buscadero,  regardless of the angle of the slot, or lack of an angle. 

edited to add: my comments do not account for Dwight's detail on belt configuration for fitting around a buttless cowboy.  I haven't reached that level of expertise in my work. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by JamesRiley

[Dave Richardson]

26 minutes ago, Dwight said:

IT IS a buscadero if it does one thing . . . the holster hangs from a loop on the bottom of the cartridge belt. 

That is the only requirement to turn a normal holster into a buscadero.

AHHHHHHHH now that makes sense. Thanks !

I also understand the buttless cowboy.....The curved belt was my next question LOL...thanks for clearing that up ahead of time.

Dwight

 

[Aven]

4 hours ago, Dwight said:

IT IS a buscadero if it does one thing . . . the holster hangs from a loop on the bottom of the cartridge belt. 

That is the only requirement to turn a normal holster into a buscadero.

My comment comes from the teaching of John Bianchi . . . (super master holster maker) . . . who stressed that any gun belt that was cut so that most or all of it was pretty much one straight piece . . . you just couldn't get it to hang on a buttless cowboy . . . an age related thing that happens to a lot of men.  

Their butt does not disappear . . . it just moves around front above the waist line . . . leaving bones and cheek skin . . . needing a curved belt to keep up the three pounds of shooting steel and 2 or three pounds of ammo from falling to their ankles every time they cough or sneeze.

May God bless,

Dwight

Thank you so much for that Dwight.  It made me laugh after such a day.  I needed the smile.

That's the best description I have every heard, describing that phenomenon.

[billybopp]

16 hours ago, Dwight said:

IT IS a buscadero if it does one thing . . . the holster hangs from a loop on the bottom of the cartridge belt. 

That is the only requirement to turn a normal holster into a buscadero.

My comment comes from the teaching of John Bianchi . . . (super master holster maker) . . . who stressed that any gun belt that was cut so that most or all of it was pretty much one straight piece . . . you just couldn't get it to hang on a buttless cowboy . . . an age related thing that happens to a lot of men.  

Their butt does not disappear . . . it just moves around front above the waist line . . . leaving bones and cheek skin . . . needing a curved belt to keep up the three pounds of shooting steel and 2 or three pounds of ammo from falling to their ankles every time they cough or sneeze.

May God bless,

Dwight

I resemble that remark!   

[JamesRiley]

Dwight:  While I don't yet suffer from the loss of butt, I can see it as a future consideration.  Can you point to a thread or discussion (maybe with pictures) that details what it is you are saying and how it should be done?  Thanks for any help you might provide.

[Dwight]

12 hours ago, JamesRiley said:

Dwight:  While I don't yet suffer from the loss of butt, I can see it as a future consideration.  Can you point to a thread or discussion (maybe with pictures) that details what it is you are saying and how it should be done?  Thanks for any help you might provide.

James . . . 

Here is how I make gunbelts for cowboys.

Take 5 sheets of regular printer paper . . . copy the enclosed pictures with no margins . . . tape the 5 pieces together . . . shows how I make a 2 1/2 inch wide gun belt.  I've made 3 inch wide . . . most guys like the 2 1/2 better.  Pretty much all the info is on there . . . holler if you have any questions.

This is the "technique" I got from John Bianchi's old VHS tape series a guy loaned me about 20 years ago.  The only think not on here is the belt loops for the cartridges.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Dwight

[JamesRiley]

Thanks, Dwight.  I got it.  Conceptually, I understand why a straight belt would fall, but I can't figure why a curved belt would stay up.  But I've learned that somethings don't need to be explained.  They just work.  I figure once I make one, the "why" will settle in my brain.  Again, thanks for taking the time to do this.  Jim.

[Dwight]

20 minutes ago, JamesRiley said:

Thanks, Dwight.  I got it.  Conceptually, I understand why a straight belt would fall, but I can't figure why a curved belt would stay up.  But I've learned that somethings don't need to be explained.  They just work.  I figure once I make one, the "why" will settle in my brain.  Again, thanks for taking the time to do this.  Jim.

It is actually something most of us lose in the translation . . . which is a simple geometry problem.

The top of the belt is actually slightly shorter than the bottom . . . so when you buckle it . . . it becomes a belt that is sort of like the sides of a bell . . . and becomes somewhat of a girdling effect when pulled tight.

There used to be an old fellow in my neck of the woods years ago . . . tried to break into the cowboy line . . . didn't really know what he was doing . . . his answer to belts falling was to line the back with suede leather.  Nobody bought them and he quit the busines so I was told.

And the girdle works.  My gunbelt is heavy . . . but I don't have any real problem keeping it up . . . because of the trick John Bianchi showed us.

OH . . . one important thing I forgot to say earlier . . . print those pics landscape . . . full size on the paper . . . you then have a perfect full size pattern . . . cut it out and transfer it to something more sturdy.  Mine is cut out of bag stiffener . . . works like a champ.  I just line up the outside edge with the waist size number on the top of the back piece of the belt pattern . . . tape the two together temporarily . . . lay out my belt pieces on the leather . . . outline them . . . and start cutting leather.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited March 27, 2021 by Dwight

[JamesRiley]

I printed it out in "portrait" and they seem to go together well, but I've saved them in my pc so when I do the real deal for transfer to heavier stock I will print out "landscape."  I intend to make a rifle cartridge belt for each of my different caliber Winchesters and will use this technique.  They'll be more for wall hangers but I like everything functional too.  I've got some other projects (non-leather) that I have to get to, but I look forward to using this pattern.  Thanks again.

[Dave Richardson]

Looks like this simple question took a turn to HOW DO I DO THAT, which was not the question. Any administrators care to move the post ?????

[Northmount]

19 hours ago, Dave Richardson said:

Looks like this simple question took a turn to HOW DO I DO THAT, which was not the question. Any administrators care to move the post ?????

How do I do that is wide open territory.  Not the place I would go to find info on holsters and gun belts.  It's where it belongs.

 

[Dave Richardson]

5 hours ago, Northmount said:

How do I do that is wide open territory.  Not the place I would go to find info on holsters and gun belts.  It's where it belongs.

 

How do I do that is a category here on the forum not a wide open territory. Great place to go to find out how to make a holster and belt and get templets. 

[Northmount]

42 minutes ago, Dave Richardson said:

How do I do that is a category here on the forum not a wide open territory. Great place to go to find out how to make a holster and belt and get templets. 

Each to their own, but if we keep stuff under the correct forums, it is much easier to find and to keep up with content that we are interested in.  Else you may as well pile everything into one area like I see a lot of peoples' desks.  Guess that is the way their mind works. 

I won't be moving this thread.

[fredk]

A change in the title would be good

[Northmount]

12 minutes ago, fredk said:

A change in the title would be good

Done

[Dave Richardson]

41 minutes ago, Northmount said:

Each to their own, but if we keep stuff under the correct forums, it is much easier to find and to keep up with content that we are interested in.  Else you may as well pile everything into one area like I see a lot of peoples' desks.  Guess that is the way their mind works. 

I won't be moving this thread.

I think you made my point. My post was to ask the question what makes a buscadero a buscadero . Building a CURVED belt , patterns, "how to " should have been a new thread in the how do i do it section. None of the post of instructions or templets adresses the question of my original post. Dwight answered my question, I responded by thanking him

"to keep stuff under the correct forum " Mr. Riley should have started a new thread in how do I do that to make a CRUVED belt.

[JamesRiley]

You, Dave Richardson, asked Dwight "You would never make one like what?" and we were off to the races.

[Northmount]

16 hours ago, Dave Richardson said:

I think you made my point. My post was to ask the question what makes a buscadero a buscadero . Building a CURVED belt , patterns, "how to " should have been a new thread in the how do i do it section. None of the post of instructions or templets adresses the question of my original post. Dwight answered my question, I responded by thanking him

"to keep stuff under the correct forum " Mr. Riley should have started a new thread in how do I do that to make a CRUVED belt.

Don't understand why you would want to argue with a moderator that has some responsibility for where posts should be!  But, to each his own!  Seems quite disingenuous to me.

[Josh Ashman]

Hey guys, I'll chime in on the secondary topic of curved belts and how to make them. I think the "what makes it a buscadero" has been pretty well answered with the drop slot for holster attachment. 

I agree with Dwight that a curved cartridge belt is preferable to a straight one. However, I don't bother to cut my belt blanks on a curve because I think the hides yield better and are easier to cut straight with a strap cutter and it's easy enough to make them curve after you cut them. 

This isn't a buscarero but it works the same if it were. Leather is 10/11 HO cut @ 2-3/4" wide. (which is what I do for a tooled cartridge belt, if they aren't tooled I'll go with 2-1/2" wide).

Here is the straight cut blank before I started the 2nd session of tooling. After I took this picture I ran it through my bucket of water and let it sit and "case" for approximately 1 cup of coffee;

And here it is with some more tooling and formed into a curve. Simple as holding the leather flat on your work surface and forcing the ends up into the curve;

Here's the finished belt, still in curve. Not a ton of curve, but enough as far as I'm concerned;

And just for fun the finished rig complete;

As always, there's more than 1 way to do something. 

All the best, Josh