make wax

[chuck123wapati]

27 minutes ago, ScottWolf said:

Chuck, great example of what I mentioned above about the effects of oxidation and the concerns about using a substance by itself without other substances like preservatives and or emulsifiers to prevent/retard oxidation.

I know you make a conditioner let me know how it works in say twenty years the first 7000 years of leather history  doesn't show much use of vegetable oils mixes of any kind that i know of and i'm not sold. 

[fredk]

  

[ScottWolf]

3 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

I know you make a conditioner let me know how it works in say twenty years the first 7000 years of leather history  doesn't show much use of vegetable oils mixes of any kind that i know of and i'm not sold. 

Take a look into how leather is made and the tanning process then. There are several oils(vegetable and animal) used in that process that most people swear off using. As I eluded to earlier, once you do some research, it puts to bed several misconceptions and the misinformation often shared on leather forums. As for the conditioners I make, all of the natural ingredients used are also found in all/most of the commercially available and used products(per their MSDS)  mentioned in most leather forums. I don't expect people to take my word for it, which is why I encourage people to doubt me ( or anyone for that matter) and do the their own research.

Out of curiosity Chuck, which products , commercial and or home made, do you use to condition your leather items? 

 

[RockyAussie]

Come on guys....steady on up. What do you think VEG tan leather is??? I am noticing more and more lately that members are inclined to get narky with each other unnecessarily. Looking for differing points of experience is something most are wanting to see and experience by coming to LW.

[Klara]

In case anybody wants to know, almond oil and olive oil have been used for centuries on recorders (the wind instrument) without ever one going "rancid". Hardening of the surface, due to oxidisation, would be desirable in a recorder, however. Except that these two oils are not famous for doing so - that would be linseed oil (which oxidises so much that it is generally not used by players, only by some makers).

Incidentally, are you sure you are using pure neatsfoot oil and where do you find it? Over 10 years ago I read the following advice by Jessica Jahiel in her horse sense newsletter: "These days, what you see in almost all containers labeled "neatsfoot oil" is NOT pure neatsfoot oil at all, but a compound full of oils and solvents and perfumes... all additives that damage leather.

I know several riders who truly believe that they use neatsfoot oil on their tack, but I've seen the products they use, and it isn't what they believe it to be. It's a fairly thin, oily liquid with a strong but not horribly unpleasant smell - nice to use, but not at all like genuine neatsfoot oil. One fellow uses it on his boots, and is in the habit of oiling his boots and bridles in the kitchen. He wouldn't be able to do this with the real product.

Real neatsfoot oil is something that you couldn't use in your house unless everyone there had a wicked bad head cold. Real, pure, un-messed-with neatsfoot oil stinks. It's also very thick - technically it's a liquid, but if you're holding a jar upside down waiting for the last little bit of real neatsfoot oil to crawl out of it, you can wait a long time before anything happens..." (http://www.horse-sense.org/archives/20050911124635.php )

 

 

[Tugadude]

I'm with RockAussie, let's tone things down.  Everybody has experiences and none are ever the same.  Try things and if they don't work, try something else.

Besides, this is Rancid...

 

[Sheilajeanne]

Klara, as someone who rode a lot in the past (and cleaned and oiled a lot of tack) I found that very interesting! I have noticed neatsfoot oil will partially solidify at low temperatures. Does that happen with the purer NFO, or with the mixes? I know NFO with petroleum additives will rot stitching after awhile, and is thinner (and therefore easier to apply!) than the stuff that's supposed to be pure. With the 'pure' NFO, I found I'd often have to warm the tack with my hands to get it to sink into the leather.

Edit: any cook will tell you that vegetable oil eventually goes rancid. I would never use it on leather. Yes, it may be in commercial leather preparations, but they have added preservatives to prevent it from breaking down. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Sheilajeanne

[chuck123wapati]

7 hours ago, Klara said:

In case anybody wants to know, almond oil and olive oil have been used for centuries on recorders (the wind instrument) without ever one going "rancid". Hardening of the surface, due to oxidisation, would be desirable in a recorder, however. Except that these two oils are not famous for doing so - that would be linseed oil (which oxidises so much that it is generally not used by players, only by some makers).

Incidentally, are you sure you are using pure neatsfoot oil and where do you find it? Over 10 years ago I read the following advice by Jessica Jahiel in her horse sense newsletter: "These days, what you see in almost all containers labeled "neatsfoot oil" is NOT pure neatsfoot oil at all, but a compound full of oils and solvents and perfumes... all additives that damage leather.

I know several riders who truly believe that they use neatsfoot oil on their tack, but I've seen the products they use, and it isn't what they believe it to be. It's a fairly thin, oily liquid with a strong but not horribly unpleasant smell - nice to use, but not at all like genuine neatsfoot oil. One fellow uses it on his boots, and is in the habit of oiling his boots and bridles in the kitchen. He wouldn't be able to do this with the real product.

Real neatsfoot oil is something that you couldn't use in your house unless everyone there had a wicked bad head cold. Real, pure, un-messed-with neatsfoot oil stinks. It's also very thick - technically it's a liquid, but if you're holding a jar upside down waiting for the last little bit of real neatsfoot oil to crawl out of it, you can wait a long time before anything happens..." (http://www.horse-sense.org/archives/20050911124635.php )

 

 

i had to look it up as i know nothing about recorders i found this info.

"Almost every maker recommends sweet almond oil with vitamin e oil added to it. The vitamin e oil keeps the almond oil from going rancid."  

You mean you wouldn't use leather water proofing for a recorder ?  Hmmm maybe just maybe thre isn't one answer! 

Edited September 5, 2021 by chuck123wapati

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

Take a look into how leather is made and the tanning process then. There are several oils(vegetable and animal) used in that process that most people swear off using. As I eluded to earlier, once you do some research, it puts to bed several misconceptions and the misinformation often shared on leather forums. As for the conditioners I make, all of the natural ingredients used are also found in all/most of the commercially available and used products(per their MSDS)  mentioned in most leather forums. I don't expect people to take my word for it, which is why I encourage people to doubt me ( or anyone for that matter) and do the their own research.

Out of curiosity Chuck, which products , commercial and or home made, do you use to condition your leather items? 

 

It depends friend on what i intend to use the leather for. My boots for example don't get the same treatment as my wallet. Get what I'm saying? Not all leather will require the same conditioners. But nothing i use will have vegetable oils in it as the main ingredient and that is because of my personal experience and knowledge as i have written above. I see no reason to have to add a bunch of chemicals to an iffy ingredient, the American way founded on trying to sell waste materials,  just to get it to work when there are tried and proven products out there that need nothing additional, sure you can make veg oil work and it may work very well if you add enough other stuff to make it stable but I'm not going to try it on products i make and intend to last for the lifetime of the person I just cant afford to sorry.  I do use neat's-foot on most of my work as the first product for conditioning to start the process of moisturizing or softening the leather its been used for centuries and i have used it for decades and i know it works.  I do make one hell of a castile soap for the family however if that helps you to understand I'm not anti veg oil LOL.

To everyone didn't mean to sound snarky at all or argumentative i apologize to anyone i have offended. 

[ScottWolf]

5 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

But nothing i use will have vegetable oils in it as the main ingredient and that is because of my personal experience and knowledge as i have written above. I see no reason to have to add a bunch of chemicals to an iffy ingredient, the American way founded on trying to sell waste materials,  just to get it to work when there are tried and proven products out there that need nothing additional, sure you can make veg oil work and it may work very well if you add enough other stuff to make it stable but I'm not going to try it on products i make and intend to last for the lifetime of the person I just cant afford to sorry. 

OK, let me ask this question another way. How do you know that the products that you do use, don't have any of the ingredients you are opposed to using in them? Do you know what ingredients are in all of the different conditioners you use , be it for your boots or wallet or any leather item of yours?