Swivel Knife

[Davm]

I have a swivel knife that doesn't seem very sharp. Tandy model.  I bought a clamp on guide for sharpening but I don't seem to be able to get it very sharp. If you are supposed to strop the edge thn I am assuming you need it very sharp. Any help appreciated.

[Tugadude]

32 minutes ago, Davm said:

I have a swivel knife that doesn't seem very sharp. Tandy model.  I bought a clamp on guide for sharpening but I don't seem to be able to get it very sharp. If you are supposed to strop the edge thn I am assuming you need it very sharp. Any help appreciated.

There are likely several videos on youtube that address sharpening swivel knives.  Which Tandy model?  They have several.  Is it angled or square?

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Tugadude
added info

[battlemunky]

Sharpening a swivel knife blade is just like sharpening any other blade. If you can't or don't know how to sharpen a regular knife, you can learn a lot you can apply to either depending on which version you start with. YouTube is full of sharpening videos as Tugadude posted one.

Keep your angle constant (use the holder you picked up) and make sure that you are keeping it equal on both sides. You should get a burr to form on one side that you then work the other side down to until it forms a burr, then step up to higher grit sandpaper/stones and you should have it ready. It isn't always a quick process so take your time and pay ayyention.

Check out some videos and try it out.

[chuck123wapati]

the wide angle wont ever get super sharp like a knife so if that's what your trying for it wont happen but it will get "sharp" in swivel knife terms.  it only has to cut the leather about halfway through which is why the angle is like it is. I test mine by trying to bevel the edge of a piece of leather if it will trim a bevel it is sharp. 

[YinTx]

Getting the angle identical every time you take it to the stone is not easy.  Bruce makes it seem easy, but that is years of practice.  Using a simple swivel knife jig really facilitates getting this right.  When you don't get it right, the bevel will lean, and you may have multiple bevels, instead of one flat mirror.  Some of the older blades are rougher than the one he is working on, and take a lot more effort to get sharp.  However, they will easily cut you or anything once you get it sharpened and stropped.  Sometimes I'll use it to cut out the shape of a piece I've just tooled because it makes small complex curves easy to cut.  It'll go right through 10 oz leather - I take it almost all the way, then let it dry and finish with a round knife or one of my other leather knives when I am done.

I spent a few hours on these to get them to this point, while not perfect they are fun to use and cut very smoothly.  The one on the left could use more work on the 5000 grit stone before stropping again.  As far as I know, these are all old Tandy blades, and cut as well or better than a Barry King I tried out once.

YinTx

[chuck123wapati]

4 minutes ago, YinTx said:

Getting the angle identical every time you take it to the stone is not easy.  Bruce makes it seem easy, but that is years of practice.  Using a simple swivel knife jig really facilitates getting this right.  When you don't get it right, the bevel will lean, and you may have multiple bevels, instead of one flat mirror.  Some of the older blades are rougher than the one he is working on, and take a lot more effort to get sharp.  However, they will easily cut you or anything once you get it sharpened and stropped.  Sometimes I'll use it to cut out the shape of a piece I've just tooled because it makes small complex curves easy to cut.  It'll go right through 10 oz leather - I take it almost all the way, then let it dry and finish with a round knife or one of my other leather knives when I am done.

I spent a few hours on these to get them to this point, while not perfect they are fun to use and cut very smoothly.  The one on the left could use more work on the 5000 grit stone before stropping again.  As far as I know, these are all old Tandy blades, and cut as well or better than a Barry King I tried out once.

YinTx

beautiful! those nice polished bevels do their share for a nice smooth cut as well, makes the blade slide along without grabbing. 

[Davm]

Thanks everyone

 

[oltoot]

Another 'trick' . Rather than try to acquire and then ruin a series of stones, get  a series of grit sandpapers from coarse to fine and lay a sheet of sandpaper down on your tooling or skiving place (big smooth spot) and back and forth with your blade in the little Tandy roller guide. When you have the metal 'scored' with a series of lines to  match the grit then repeat with a finer grit till you are down to emory paper and just polishing. Finish with hard strop and enjoy!

[Samalan]

On 9/16/2021 at 12:15 PM, oltoot said:

Another 'trick' . Rather than try to acquire and then ruin a series of stones, get  a series of grit sandpapers from coarse to fine and lay a sheet of sandpaper down on your tooling or skiving place (big smooth spot) and back and forth with your blade in the little Tandy roller guide. When you have the metal 'scored' with a series of lines to  match the grit then repeat with a finer grit till you are down to emory paper and just polishing. Finish with hard strop and enjoy!

I agree I use a piece of glass 3/8" thick 4"x 12 " with wet dry it works great I like to keep sharpening separate from other work as it tends to get a bit messy .

[YinTx]

24 minutes ago, Samalan said:

I agree I use a piece of glass 3/8" thick 4"x 12 " with wet dry it works great I like to keep sharpening separate from other work as it tends to get a bit messy .

+1 on all this.  I also use a bit of water with a couple of drops of dish soap for lubricant on the sandpaper.  Can take it all the way to 2000+ grit sandpaper, wet/dry 3M.  Finish on the 4000+ grit stone if desired, then strop for final polish.

also, I don't follow the roller back and forth, instead side to side, with the roller part OFF of the sandpaper.  It'll slide along just fine on the glass/granite.  This keeps the grain in the direction of the cutting action of the blade, and easier to control the burr for me.  I forget who I saw doing this but it was a game changer for me.

YinTx

[Samalan]

17 hours ago, YinTx said:

+1 on all this.  I also use a bit of water with a couple of drops of dish soap for lubricant on the sandpaper.  Can take it all the way to 2000+ grit sandpaper, wet/dry 3M.  Finish on the 4000+ grit stone if desired, then strop for final polish.

also, I don't follow the roller back and forth, instead side to side, with the roller part OFF of the sandpaper.  It'll slide along just fine on the glass/granite.  This keeps the grain in the direction of the cutting action of the blade, and easier to control the burr for me.  I forget who I saw doing this but it was a game changer for me.

YinTx

I can't think who it was either but we must have saw the same thing because it was a game changer for me also that's funny we sharpen the exact same way and it's very fast and effective . I can get ten strops or more before going back to the stone, and at that it's just a quick touch.

[Squid61]

Kevin at SLC has a video in which he strops side to side but he free hands it, I haven't seen a video using a guide in a side to side fashion.

[Squid61]

Thinking more on this, it seems stropping to a polish should eliminate any drag due to striations from the sharpening/honing stone.  What am I not understanding?

[tsunkasapa]

27 minutes ago, Squid61 said:

Thinking more on this, it seems stropping to a polish should eliminate any drag due to striations from the sharpening/honing stone.  What am I not understanding?

You got it right. It doesn't matter which way you go, polishing takes care of the issue.

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Squid61 said:

Kevin at SLC has a video in which he strops side to side but he free hands it, I haven't seen a video using a guide in a side to side fashion.

Sharpening is a personal thing like leather work everyone finds their own best way. that's why so many opinions on how to do it. the end result is what is important not how you get there. The idea is a a straight, even on both sides, highly sharpened and polished edge. Of all the things i have cut in my life leather is right up there as hard to do, you need the polish or the knife drags and you need the sharpness or the knife doesn't cut its really that simple. Many overthink the process going from one way to the next but never really getting good at any one way they have tried. Pick a style that you and your hands and eyes can handle and perfect it. My self after the stones i use sandpaper spray glued to my pounding stone up to 2500. No need for the stones for a long time once the edge has been cut unless you nick or damage the blade. 

[oltoot]

S K's and horses: Take the time it takes; don't rush

[Squid61]

A bit of a rant:  Knife sharpening in general seems to carry a lot of anxiety for beginners, odd knives like a swivel knife seem the most intimidating.  Sites like this and more general knife forums do, or should, provide a boost both technically and emotionally to those beginners.  Doesn't help a bit to say do whatever works best for you to a beginner.  Back in the middle fifties when I first started sharpening a gas station grade pocket knife I had no advice to lean on, it took a long time to overcome mistakes that wouldn't have existed with a bit of advance knowledge.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Squid61
content correction

[YinTx]

4 hours ago, Squid61 said:

Thinking more on this, it seems stropping to a polish should eliminate any drag due to striations from the sharpening/honing stone.  What am I not understanding?

It does for the most part.  Not every effort is perfect, so in my mind little things matter.  But probably not.

40 minutes ago, Squid61 said:

Doesn't help a bit to say do whatever works best for you to a beginner.

Not sure I picked up on anyone saying that, really.  But I do get what you are saying.  Just note there is more than one way to do a job, and you just have to pick a way and try to get good at it.  If you just can't get that way to work for you, then try another, or alter what you are doing to suit your style.  Hopefully we have laid out a few techniques here that have worked for us, so a beginner should have enough info to start from.  I started freehand on a small oil stone.  That didn't work for me, I moved to other methods until I landed on one that did.  My final style is probably a bit different from everyone else, but it works for me.

YinTx

[Squid61]

No intent to single anyone out, just a personal comment that applies to all crafts be it leather, wood, welding or whatever.  I would have loved to have had the internet back in the 50's, what a great resource for learning.

[chuck123wapati]

18 hours ago, YinTx said:

It does for the most part.  Not every effort is perfect, so in my mind little things matter.  But probably not.

Not sure I picked up on anyone saying that, really.  But I do get what you are saying.  Just note there is more than one way to do a job, and you just have to pick a way and try to get good at it.  If you just can't get that way to work for you, then try another, or alter what you are doing to suit your style.  Hopefully we have laid out a few techniques here that have worked for us, so a beginner should have enough info to start from.  I started freehand on a small oil stone.  That didn't work for me, I moved to other methods until I landed on one that did.  My final style is probably a bit different from everyone else, but it works for me.

YinTx

yup i agree my daughter has a tee shirt it says" "i can explain it to you but i cant understand it for you" my twist i can show you every step but i cant teach your muscles memory you have to do that part.

 

[chuck123wapati]

19 hours ago, Squid61 said:

A bit of a rant:  Knife sharpening in general seems to carry a lot of anxiety for beginners, odd knives like a swivel knife seem the most intimidating.  Sites like this and more general knife forums do, or should, provide a boost both technically and emotionally to those beginners.  Doesn't help a bit to say do whatever works best for you to a beginner.  Back in the middle fifties when I first started sharpening a gas station grade pocket knife I had no advice to lean on, it took a long time to overcome mistakes that wouldn't have existed with a bit of advance knowledge.

My lil rant I would bet there isn't a house on this planet that doesn't have a cutting tool in it. why so many don't know how to sharpen them even at the basic level is beyond my comprehension. i do my best to help those who ask and have spent a lot of my time and posted many times on sharpening questions. 

Please don't get me wrong  i agree with you comment  about the net being an awesome place to learn but then you still  have to apply it by your self. Myself my family taught me back in the day from my dad to my grandmother all knew how to sharpen their tools. but in the end i still had to lay steel on stone. 

22 hours ago, oltoot said:

S K's and horses: Take the time it takes; don't rush

absolutely!

[fredk]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

My lil rant . . .  why so many don't know how to sharpen them even at the basic level is beyond my comprehension.. . . 

I'll give you one reason - they aren't taught how to do it

In the US, iirc, you have 'shop' in school where you learn woodwork and metal work. It is a rather intensive learning. Here in the UK we had 'wood work' classes which was no more than playtime with some pieces of wood. Nothing was taught, it was just a bit of school time in which time was wasted until the next class.

[Squid61]

No one taught me how to sharpen a knife.  I spent money I earned sweeping a barbershop floor to buy a cheap pocket knife and when it wouldn't cut I figured out how to sharpen it.  I don't remember the details but wrong as they might have been, that knife would finally cut.  Over the years I perfected my technique and adapted it to specialty knives as needed.  I have no doubt that a similar story fits many, if not most, over the age of 60.

[chuck123wapati]

25 minutes ago, Squid61 said:

No one taught me how to sharpen a knife.  I spent money I earned sweeping a barbershop floor to buy a cheap pocket knife and when it wouldn't cut I figured out how to sharpen it.  I don't remember the details but wrong as they might have been, that knife would finally cut.  Over the years I perfected my technique and adapted it to specialty knives as needed.  I have no doubt that a similar story fits many, if not most, over the age of 60.

i'm sure the story does and that is sad indeed.  You should have asked the barber lol. I'm over 60 my dad taught me to sharpen knives my granddad taught me to sharpen everything from a hoe to an axe. I guess i was lucky i came from a poor family that were alive back when people learned from each other, that's how it was here back in the day just like learning to cook or sew it was part of growing up.

[Squid61]

To get back to the OP question; it does help to color the bevel of any knife with a marker pen before you start to sharpen.  As you sharpen you will wear away the ink and get immediate feedback on how much of the blade edge you are actually sharpening.  Adjust the blade angle until you get even coverage, if it's a typical secondary bevel you want even grinding from the blade edge to the top of the secondary bevel.  Try to avoid creating a convex edge for leather or wood knives.  The ink method works well for honing and stropping as well.